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3v Herms Brew Day Procedure.

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Truman42

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As I make the move from BIAB to a 3V herms system Ive been playing around in Brewmate with some previous recipes to get a feel for it all. So I would like to run through what I assume is the procedure to make sure Im getting this right, and would appreciate any help and advice.

Here is my brew day notes from Brewmate.

brewmate.png

1. So first I would put 15 litres into my HLT bring up to strike temp, transfer to my mash tun and dough in.

2. Whilst recirculating my mash through my HX, I would add a further 13.72 litres to my HLT, and bring up to 75C.

3. After mash out transfer wort from mash to kettle and crank up the heat.

4. Drain from HLT to mash tun and batch sparge with the 13.72 litres letting it recirculate through the HX for 15???? mins.

5. After sparge top up kettle from mash tun and allow boil to commence.

So am I on the right track here? Anything Ive missed?
 

dkaos

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I'm in the process of setting up a 3V myself, but from what you've typed here, you've left out mashing at 67.5 or whatever. Unless you're planning on mashing at 75 which I think would make a very malty beer?

Clint
 

Truman42

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Clint,

Under Mash you can see the desired mash temp is set to 65C. And strike water set at 71.7C.

I set my sparge water temp to 75C, to match the mash out temp.
 

Muscovy_333

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Your on the right track mate.
I split my sparge water into 2 or three batch sparges of 4 to 5 litres each, or you could fly sparge the whole lot continuosly (that might be phase 2 of your build).
 

mxd

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looks fine,

what I do is heat my MLT and HX and HLT at the same time.

i.e
add 15 ltrs to HLT and MLT,
start recirc through HX to mlt
set MLT temp to Mash + 3,
Set HLT to wahtever you do for mash out/sparge
when at temp mash in and set HX temp back to mash temp
drink beer
60 minutes or 3 beers later, move wort from MLT to Kettle
Fill MLT up from HLT
recirc for 15 min or 1 beer or so
move wort from MLT to kettle
boil for 60 min
cube
drink beer
clean
drink beer
 

Rowy

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Or you could swing the bag <_<
 

TidalPete

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Your on the right track mate.
I split my sparge water into 2 or three batch sparges of 4 to 5 litres each, or you could fly sparge the whole lot continuosly (that might be phase 2 of your build).
Am I missing something here?
Not sure of your water to grain ratio here but at 3.0 litres/Kg I find that I need to have 50% liquor (after grain absorption) to do a double sparge. Interested in finding out how a triple batch sparge can be achieved as all the grain must be covered to achieve maxium mash efficiency.
Always willing to learn. :)

TP
 

Truman42

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looks fine,

what I do is heat my MLT and HX and HLT at the same time.

i.e
add 15 ltrs to HLT and MLT,
start recirc through HX to mlt
set MLT temp to Mash + 3,
Set HLT to wahtever you do for mash out/sparge
when at temp mash in and set HX temp back to mash temp
drink beer
60 minutes or 3 beers later, move wort from MLT to Kettle
Fill MLT up from HLT
recirc for 15 min or 1 beer or so
move wort from MLT to kettle
boil for 60 min
cube
drink beer
clean
drink beer
Mate that's 1/2 doz beers. I'd be wrecked after 3 of some of the high abv beers I've produced. :D

Thanks for the feedback Muscovy. Need to get this down before I attempt fly sparging though. Lol
 

mxd

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Mate that's 1/2 doz beers. I'd be wrecked after 3 of some of the high abv beers I've produced. :D

Thanks for the feedback Muscovy. Need to get this down before I attempt fly sparging though. Lol
your just down the road we can pop over when I do a brew and we can see how we do :p

from my sig you can see I have between 5to 9.5% on tap, mmm maybe thats what wrong with some of my brews :chug:
 

Crusty

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As I make the move from BIAB to a 3V herms system Ive been playing around in Brewmate with some previous recipes to get a feel for it all. So I would like to run through what I assume is the procedure to make sure Im getting this right, and would appreciate any help and advice.

Here is my brew day notes from Brewmate.

View attachment 53763

1. So first I would put 15 litres into my HLT bring up to strike temp, transfer to my mash tun and dough in.

2. Whilst recirculating my mash through my HX, I would add a further 13.72 litres to my HLT, and bring up to 75C.

3. After mash out transfer wort from mash to kettle and crank up the heat.

4. Drain from HLT to mash tun and batch sparge with the 13.72 litres letting it recirculate through the HX for 15???? mins.

5. After sparge top up kettle from mash tun and allow boil to commence.

So am I on the right track here? Anything Ive missed?
What temp control do you have to monitor the hex outlet?
On my Rims setup, I add my total brewday water to the HLT & your procedure on my system would be something like this:
1: Heat HLT water to 70.3 & transfer 15L to the mash tun. Add crushed grain & stir.
2: Pump mash water through hex until clear, just a couple of minutes, fire hex element. Maintain desired mash temp ( 65deg ) for 60mins.
3: Raise temp to mash out, ( 78deg ) & once at temp, re-circulate for 10mins.
4: Completely drain mash tun ( first running's ) to boil kettle.
5: Heat HLT water to batch sparge temp, 75deg & transfer 13.7L to mash tun. Stir & re-circulate till clear, transfer to boil kettle.
My Rims is PID controlled & I pre-programme mine at the start of brewday & it goes through the temp ramps on it's own, no further input from me. I do a protein rest @55deg for 10mins, sacc rest @66deg for 60mins & a mashout @78deg for 10mins. 88% efficiency & clear as a bell wort.
 

iralosavic

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Makes it easy to digest seeing it in point form. I promised myself I'd stick with BIAB for at least a dozen more brews (takes me ages to blow a keg on my own too), but seeing your transition is making it hard to resist!

Is there any special draining sequence when fly sparging or is it just recirculate for 15 mins, stop recirculating then pump the lot to the boil kettle?
 

Crusty

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Makes it easy to digest seeing it in point form. I promised myself I'd stick with BIAB for at least a dozen more brews (takes me ages to blow a keg on my own too), but seeing your transition is making it hard to resist!

Is there any special draining sequence when fly sparging or is it just recirculate for 15 mins, stop recirculating then pump the lot to the boil kettle?
My system is a single tier & to fly sparge I would need another pump. Matching the wort draining from the mash tun with the water entering the mash tun @desired temp is the key. I tried it once, PITA for me & have batch sparged ever since. I am getting 88% efficiency doing it this way & I doubt fly sparging will better that.
 

kelbygreen

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I just drain it into a jug and keep topping up the mash when its needed. Nothing hard but it does take time. You would be there watching the levels anyway with a pump so it isnt like it takes longer just more work.
 

Truman42

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your just down the road we can pop over when I do a brew and we can see how we do :p

from my sig you can see I have between 5to 9.5% on tap, mmm maybe thats what wrong with some of my brews :chug:
Sounds good, but I better not drive... :D
 

Truman42

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What temp control do you have to monitor the hex outlet?
Im using a STC1000. Not as automated as a PID but one step at a time. That might be my next project.
 

Muscovy_333

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Am I missing something here?
Not sure of your water to grain ratio here but at 3.0 litres/Kg I find that I need to have 50% liquor (after grain absorption) to do a double sparge. Interested in finding out how a triple batch sparge can be achieved as all the grain must be covered to achieve maxium mash efficiency.
Always willing to learn. :)

TP

TP, I am certainly no expert...
For a 5kg grist I generally mash and sparge 28 litres out and boil it back to around 23litres.

Grain to mash water is generally about 1:3, After absorption i usually sparge with around 18 litres of water and just split it into 3 x 6 litre batch sparges.

I do not drain my grain bed completely. As soon as it starts to slow i stop and add my next batch sparge which normally brings the level back just above the grain level.
In the past it has worked great for me 75-80% efficiency. I have just installed HERMs and have lost some efficiency which i am now looking into so perhaps I am doing it all wrong??
 

Yob

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Im finding that equipment and procedure is the thing im missing recently... I just keep F*King with it and Ive not got the same equipment for more than a few weeks :rolleyes:

A Part of (I feel) the whole consistency thing is to have the system nailed down (and happy with it) and to have used it over the period of time..

while this is all in transition nothing is solid and results are variable... IMO

as soon as you add a pump to recirc the whole story changes dunnit ;)

Im personally not going back to manual jug recirculation though :lol:
 

Crusty

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TP, I am certainly no expert...
For a 5kg grist I generally mash and sparge 28 litres out and boil it back to around 23litres.

Grain to mash water is generally about 1:3, After absorption i usually sparge with around 18 litres of water and just split it into 3 x 6 litre batch sparges.

I do not drain my grain bed completely. As soon as it starts to slow i stop and add my next batch sparge which normally brings the level back just above the grain level.
In the past it has worked great for me 75-80% efficiency. I have just installed HERMs and have lost some efficiency which i am now looking into so perhaps I am doing it all wrong??
I would ping off the third sparge, I don't see any benefit to that at all especially if you are not completely draining the grain bed. At most, I would do a double batch sparge of 9L each, completely draining the grain bed each time & see if that picks up your efficiency. 9L is a small batch sparge with a 5kg grain bill & I would be a little worried about getting a stuck sparge with that thickness. I used to always double batch sparge with the gravity ghetto system but since installing a pump, I only do a single batch sparge these days.
 

Muscovy_333

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Im finding that equipment and procedure is the thing im missing recently... I just keep F*King with it and Ive not got the same equipment for more than a few weeks :rolleyes:

A Part of (I feel) the whole consistency thing is to have the system nailed down (and happy with it) and to have used it over the period of time..

while this is all in transition nothing is solid and results are variable... IMO

as soon as you add a pump to recirc the whole story changes dunnit ;)

Im personally not going back to manual jug recirculation though :lol:

Yup, I tasted a hydro samlpe of an American Bown Ale that i brewed using the HERMS and pump today. I think the quality has improved from my improved process control, but my brew day numbers have definitely changed to my surprise!
I wont be going back to my jug either...

Truman, you will have to brew a 'sacrificial lamb' to get to know your new 3V beast. I am happy to drink one of your Scotch Ales and watch over your shoulder if you need some moral support?? ( I use Brewmate as well)
 

Muscovy_333

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I would ping off the third sparge, I don't see any benefit to that at all especially if you are not completely draining the grain bed. At most, I would do a double batch sparge of 9L each, completely draining the grain bed each time & see if that picks up your efficiency. 9L is a small batch sparge with a 5kg grain bill & I would be a little worried about getting a stuck sparge with that thickness. I used to always double batch sparge with the gravity ghetto system but since installing a pump, I only do a single batch sparge these days.
Based on your previously stated efficiencies, i will be doing a single batch sparge just like you explained. I have always been reluctant to disturb rhe grain bed when sparging, but now that i have efficient recirc I am going to give it a whirl. Ta
 

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