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2ndry? Ccing?

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Dazzling

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In light of sounding like the newbie that i am, i have been reading various posts on CCing and 2ndary fermentation and in doing so have confused myself a great deal. Could someone please sort me out, I am interested to know how these two processes differ, what they do and what temperatures each are carried out at? are they actually one and the same thing? :blink:

cheerio

dazzling
 

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Secondary fermentation occurs after the main primary fermentation is over and occurs at the same temperature as the primary fermentation. The yeast is still in suspension. There is very little simple malt sugars left to ferment, but the yeast are still acting on components of the wort, changing and smoothing things out.

This usually takes place for about a week as the yeast settle out.

Cold conditioning is when the wort has finished fermenting and the wort is cooled down usually by refridgeration. This stops the yeast working and causes it to drop out of suspension. Depending on the brew, the brewer and his gear, this may occur from nothing to a few months.

The beer is usually racked sometime during these two phases, some brewers swear by just after primary when the terminal gravity is reached, some rack after secondary fermentation.

Racking is the process of removing the wort from the layer of sediment without any splashing or stirring. Thsi means the sediment is left behind and the beer is not exposed to oxygen. Oxygen is the enemy of beer. The beer is racked to a cleaned and sanitised vessel that has as close to zero headroom (no air or oxygen) when the vessel is full of beer.

This will differ from what you may know the secondary fermentation as, many newer brewers understand this to be when priming sugar is added to the bottles and fermentation occurs in the bottle giving carbonation.
 

kaitai

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Dazzling I am just going though the same thing now.

I am going to rack my beer to a plastic, food grade, jerry can after primary fermentation has completed. I will keep this at the same tempreature I brewed at (approx 20 degrees) for abour 5 days. During this time I will release the pressure from the jerry can daily by slighly opening the lid each day. (just enough to let the gas escape).

After 5 days I'll put the container in the fridge for another 5-10 days to cold condition and let the yeast drop out.

After this period of time I'll remove the beer from the fridge, bulk prime back into my cleaned and sanitised fermeter, and bottle.

Not sure if this is 100% correct, but it's what I intend on doing at this stage.

Cheers
 

Dazzling

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I like your work POL, all crystal clear now, or should I say CCed clear ;)


Dazzling .......out
 

kaitai

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One last thing. someone else maybe able to clarify, but I undertsand a 22l brew will fit comfortably into a 20l plastic jerry without the need to go for a 25l jerry. gives a lot less headspace this way.


cheers
 

barls

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im doing the same thing except im going from fermenter to fermenter then to cube for ccing. mine has been in the secondary fermenter now for 4 days and is still going slowly and has a gravity of 1015 at the moment so i think ill go another 4 days before putting it in my fridge at about 2-4 degrees
 

Dunkel_Boy

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What I'll usually do is whack the beer into a secondary (ie another fermenter) and let it sit for a week. If I'm dry-hopping, I'll do it at this stage. Then, the last 2-4 days or so (depending when I'm bottling/kegging) I'll shove it in the temp controlled fridge and let it sit at about 1-2C... usually does the job well enough.
Lagering is basically ccing over a long period.
I see ccing as basically dropping the yeast out of suspension to clear the beer, and can be done in the primary or secondary (or tertiary) fermentation stages. Secondary fermentation shouldn't really be done at very cold temps, as the yeast will almost certaily drop out... you want to keep the yeast there to 'polish' the beer.
 

SteveSA

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Hi Dazzling

The term "secondary fermentation" has evolved somewhat.

The original meaning was meant as a second fermentation period. ie. a second fermentable is introduced after primary fermentation. A good example is when bottling: sugar is added and the bottle is sealed. The suspended yeast then ferments a second time, feeding on the priming solution and because the bottle is sealed the CO2 dissolves into the beer causing carbonation. Another example of secondary fermentation is when brewing some types of beer that are required to be racked on to fresh fruit.

Glad we got that out the way ;)

The more recent meaning and now generally accepted term means to rack the beer from one fermenter to another, either part way through fermentation or after fermentation has completed (more on this later) The beer is then held at the original fermentation temperature for two purposes.

1. To remove the beer from the yeast cake to reduce sediment and lower the (relatively low) risk of autolysis.
2. To rouse the suspended yeast into action to "clean up" any fermentables that may have escaped notice first time around.

The are arguments of whether to bother racking or not have been covered ad nauseam on just about every brewing forum I've seen so I won't go into that.

FWIW I was originally taught to rack part way through but after a nasty experience with a Kolsch yeast and two stuck ferments I changed tack. I now wait for "primary" fermentation to finish.

Cold Conditioning is where you rack either from primary or secondary to a vessel, seal it and store it in the fridge. The low temperature causes the yeast to "fall asleep", cease fermentation and drop to the bottom of the vessel.

So when you rack on to your priming solution you will leave even more yeast behind and end up with a clearer beer.

There is a belief that CCing will also speed up the maturation of beer. Whether or not this is true is another of "those" arguments. I believe that beers with extract in them do improve quicker if they have been CCed than those that haven't but I'm not convinced AG beers do. Mind you, I like my ales fresh :chug:

Again, FWIW my practice now is to ferment completely then rack into a jerry can for CCing. The time for CCing is until I have a vacant keg or for at least 4 days. Once I racked straight from primary into a keg and served. The beer never cleared up - still tasted nice and I don't mind cloudy beer but this was really murky! I've found that 4 days will drop enough yeast out that my kegged beer is clear enough. Not as clear as those cutting dip tubes and using gelatin but we all like to be different :)

Note: this info is meant as a general guide only. There are exceptions to everything in brewing.

Regards
Steve
 

Dazzling

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I'm always amazed at how quickly quality responses are posted on this forum, keep up the top work!!! :beer:

dazzling
 

kaitai

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Dazzling hope you don't mind if I take a question onto your thread.

Where do you guys get your foodgrade, racking hoses from? Just kmart, or bunnings or somewhere like that?

Do you need some sort of adaptor to make the hose fit the tap on the fermentor?



Cheers
 

dickTed

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You can get it at Bunnings. They haven't got a clue whether it's "food grade" or not, but if you get 10mm, which is about 15mm thick outside diameter clear vinyl tubing @ $2.90/metre, it will fit over your filler tube, which fits in the tap. Two metres is what you'll want.
 

barls

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i got mine at my homebrew store
 

kaitai

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ended up getting it from the local home brew shop as well

Cheers
 

Mark blower

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Just to ask question about this subject I am going to CC my first brew. My brew has finished fermenting so I plan on racking into a second fermenter and then putting it into a fridge.

My question is actually about bulk priming should I add the dextrose before I rack or should I what till I have finished CCing?

Thanks in Advance..
 

Gulf Brewery

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Hi Mark

You need to add your priming sugar just before you bottle, otherwise it will just ferment out in the CC (slowly). Just add the dextrose to your bottling bucket when and transfer the beer from your CC onto it.

Cheers
Pedro
 

Mark blower

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Thanks Pedro,

If bulk priming is that easy why do people bother with the measuring and mess of putting suger into the bottles?
 

Gulf Brewery

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Mark blower said:
Thanks Pedro,

If bulk priming is that easy why do people bother with the measuring and mess of putting suger into the bottles?
[post="53929"][/post]​
Because most people have "always done it that way". Just make sure that the priming sugar is mixed evenly through the beer in the bottling bucket without splashing the beer.

This quote sums it up - "There is a better way. Find it!" ... Benjamin Franklin.

Cheers
Pedro
 

Sparky

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Thanks guys for some great tips on Cold Conditioning. I'm fumbling my way through my 1st lagering effort & already see that I need to do a few things different.

For my cold conditioning I am using (blue plastic) Willow brand 20 litre Jerry cans found in Supercheap Autoshop. Has anyone had any experience with these. ie; are they suitable etc?

Cheers
 

barfridge

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Hi sparky,
Those plastic jerries are fine to use, I use similar ones myself.
 

Sparky

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Hi barfridge,

Thanks for that. Very Happy!!!

I shall carry on. No hiss any more on releasing the cap, so shall wait a week or two before bottling.

My biggest botch so far has been omitting the diacetyl rest before racking into the Jerry. :rolleyes:

I understand this better now and have 2 brews nearing their time for a rest.

Cheers
 

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