2007 NSW Comp Politics thread ;)

[bigfridge]

maybe just a list of the scores so that when people get their sheets they can see where they came without alienating anyone who perhaps does not want their exact position known?

but then again it is a public competition.. B) im easy

Is it a 'Public Competition' ?

Did all the entrants view a privacy policy and give written agreement that their names and results could be distributed without their expresss permission ?

I would be worried that someone coming towards the end of a category could be disadvantaged if a potential (or current employer) would not consider them for a brewing related job due to their poor showing.

In previous years the NSW comp has only ever published numbers and scores - no names.

David

 

[KillerRx4]

Is it a 'Public Competition' ?

Did all the entrants view a privacy policy and give written agreement that their names and results could be distributed without their expresss permission ?

I would be worried that someone coming towards the end of a category could be disadvantaged if a potential (or current employer) would not consider them for a brewing related job due to their poor showing.

In previous years the NSW comp has only ever published numbers and scores - no names.

David

The ANAWBS comp listed results with names, state, score & rank. I really cant see the problem.

Really I just want to know that my beers made it to the comp, the scores given & how they ranked alongside the competition. I thought that was the whole point of entering.

 

[bigfridge]

The ANAWBS comp listed results with names, state, score & rank. I really cant see the problem.

That doesn't make it right or even legal.

Really I just want to know that my beers made it to the comp, the scores given & how they ranked alongside the competition. I thought that was the whole point of entering.

Ah, but when you get your score sheets back you will see your entry number and can look up the published list - this just has the names of the winners and the entry numbers for the non-placegetters.. You can see what we did last year here.

 

[Armstrong]

Not to put too bigger point on it, but its debates like this that just suck all the fun out of these sort of events.

Comps were a bit of fun in the past ... is it possible that people are just taking them a bit too seriously these days??

 

[bigfridge]

Not to put too bigger point on it, but its debates like this that just suck all the fun out of these sort of events.

Comps were a bit of fun in the past ... is it possible that people are just taking them a bit too seriously these days??

I just think that you need to be mindful of people's feelings. For some people it is not nice having the world know that you came last with a problem beer. Just imagine if it was a pro-brewer with an infection problem caused by bottling at home - doesn't look good for him or his employer.

By all means we need to keep having fun at these comps, but not at someone's expense.

 

[Ross]

The best brewer in the world can have a gusher if he's unlucky. I don't think anyone gets upset if they see their beer come last - It's not as if the reasons are being published.
Half the fun of comps is seeing how you did against mates etc...Beating Barry for one, can be as good as a medal place . & for me beating Batz in the Alt, when the recipe was inspired by him, is what it's all about... lighten up guys...


cheers Ross

 

[AndrewQLD]

The best brewer in the world can have a gusher if he's unlucky. I don't think anyone gets upset if they see their beer come last - It's not as if the reasons are being published.
Half the fun of comps is seeing how you did against mates etc...Beating Barry for one, can be as good as a medal place . & for me beating Batz in the Alt, when the recipe was inspired by him, is what it's all about... lighten up guys...
cheers Ross

Spot on Ross.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[///]

As one who has been affected by privacy related issues related to electronic information, I have to take the side of caution when it comes to names and information online. As frivolous as it may seem, it is far from frivolous when it happens to you.... and I take concern at the poor attitude to private info vs BBQ boasting in a public space.

So as someone previously said, lets congratulate the place getters and lets raise the bar. The dogs with a bone need to go home ...

Scotty

 

[Barry]

I don't want anyone to know about the 42/150 I got for my ordinary bitter.

 

[Stuster]

I don't want anyone to know about the 42/150 I got for my ordinary bitter.

:lol:

If you can't stand to see your results published, maybe you shouldn't have entered a competition in the first place. :huh:

I'd be interested in finding out how we all went. It's not just about BBQ boasting Scotty (although I think Ross has a great point about Barry ), but it's also about seeing how the other people you know did, and finding out the scores ASAP for those of us with ADD.

I realise it is a touchy subject these days for some reason, but there's yet to be anybody who says they don't want their results published. If you are so sensitive about doing badly, it might help to know that all or almost all the brewers who got a place, also had some low scores as well (or will do in later contests probably).

 

[Gerard_M]

I just think that you need to be mindful of people's feelings. For some people it is not nice having the world know that you came last with a problem beer. Just imagine if it was a pro-brewer with an infection problem caused by bottling at home - doesn't look good for him or his employer.

By all means we need to keep having fun at these comps, but not at someone's expense.

That seems a little bit ordinary in my book.

What is a person that is employed as a professional brewer doing entering a home-brew comp?
I seem to remember a few years back that comps such as the NSW title were for Amateur brewers only, it stated this on the entry form.

2cents that will no-doubt be wasted
Cheers
Gerard

 

[Keith the Beer Guy]

What is a person that is employed as a professional brewer doing entering a home-brew comp?
I seem to remember a few years back that comps such as the NSW title were for Amateur brewers only, it stated this on the entry form.

Gerard,

I'm a home-brewer now employed as a professional brewer.

I entered the NSW home-brew comp because on my days off I brew at home (much to the amusement of my boss). I brew at home because it's my passion, it's my recreation, it's how I relax, it's my idea of fun.

I sometimes enter beers in competitions because I love the process, taste testing my beer, assessing how they compare with style guidelines, the anticipation, the success, the failure, the feedback - I love it all.

I have helped organise competitions and judge at competitions because I feel like part of the community. I love contributing. And I love the satisfaction of seeing a job well done for my friends, peers and other beer enthusiasts.

I think of myself as a brewer first, be it using my midget 20 L mash tun at home or the relatively small 6 HL system at work; I'm proud of the beer of the beer I make and it doesn't make a difference to me whether I am serving at home from a corny keg or it's being poured by a bar staff member at work.

Homebrewing and homebrewers are a big part of my life and I wouldn't want it any other way.

This is why, while being employed as a professional brewer, I enter home-brew comps.

I am not the only one in this situation, many people now in the industry came to it through an enthusiasm for homebrewing, which is why, after much debate, before my involvement, the rules of the AABC (Rule D3) were clarified to distinguish between commercial brews and amateur brews.

Keith
NSW AABC delegate

 

[KillerRx4]

I am not the only one in this situation, many people now in the industry came to it through an enthusiasm for homebrewing, which is why, after much debate, before my involvement, the rules of the AABC (Rule D3) were clarified to distinguish between commercial brews and amateur brews.

Keith
NSW AABC delegate

Thanks for the link to the rules.

So as per the AABC rules D.11 there is no problem as I read it.

D11. Privacy. Personal information (names, addresses, and other contact details, etc)
provided by brewers on the entry form will only be used for the conduct of the competition.
This information will not be released to third parties, other than the names of brewers, which
will be published in the results lists for the competition.

 

[Gerard_M]

Gerard,
I'm a home-brewer now employed as a professional brewer.
I entered the NSW home-brew comp because therules of the AABC (Rule D3) were clarified to distinguish between commercial brews and amateur brews.

Keith
NSW AABC delegate

Cool
'nuff said
Cheers
Gerard

 

[capretta]

I would be worried that someone coming towards the end of a category could be disadvantaged if a potential (or current employer) would not consider them for a brewing related job due to their poor showing.

David

ahahahaha i honestly thought you were joking.. i would be amazed if that ever happened. man, though if you cant think quick enough on your feet if a "employer" sternly asked about your 2nd last in the 2004 pale ale category ( umm i entered a dopplebock by mistake?) you probably dont deserve the job. :lol:

i agree with ray, even though most probably dont care, there may be one or two that do and its not worth it.

maybe a thread where all entrants can associate themselves with their own brand of poison?

 

[Ross]

Not one person has replied saying that they would not want their result publishing & as Keller4x4 pointed out, it clearly says in the rules, that your name will be published in the results lists for the competition.

D11. Privacy. Personal information (names, addresses, and other contact details, etc)
provided by brewers on the entry form will only be used for the conduct of the competition.
This information will not be released to third parties, other than the names of brewers, which
will be published in the results lists for the competition.

Not personally concerned about this comp, since it's a NSW one & you can do what you like, but would be pretty upset if other States went the same way...
Would take most of the fun out of the ANWABS comp if you couldn't compare against others - Comps are meant to be fun


cheers Ross

 

[PostModern]

Think about it. If there were 5 applicants for a job at a micro, the employer might google their names to see if they were associated with anything not on their resume. Finding poor showings at state comps could mean missing out on a job, even if the other applicants weren't on the list at all. Whatever, I can see benefits of both sides.

I'm sitting on the fence about whether commercial brewers or just commercial beers should be excluded from amateur comps. To me, brewing is the making of wort and then fermenting it, so wort packs and kits are, techinically brewed on commercial equipment, so should be excluded under rule D3. Many think only the fermentation counts as brewing, so.... meh, whatever... in the end beer is beer and the intension is what counts.

 

[capretta]

fun is good. :lol:

 

[Tseay]

As one who has been affected by privacy related issues related to electronic information, I have to take the side of caution when it comes to names and information online. As frivolous as it may seem, it is far from frivolous when it happens to you.... and I take concern at the poor attitude to private info vs BBQ boasting in a public space.

So as someone previously said, lets congratulate the place getters and lets raise the bar. The dogs with a bone need to go home ...

Scotty

Absolutely- unless specifc permission is given to release names - dont.
From memory the BJCP form has a space to provide a ranking for each entry. We also need to be mindful that it will hardly be encouraging new entrants into competitions if they believe their 'failures " will be exposed to all and sundry.

 

[bigfridge]

Not one person has replied saying that they would not want their result publishing & as Keller4x4 pointed out, it clearly says in the rules, that your name will be published in the results lists for the competition.

D11. Privacy. Personal information (names, addresses, and other contact details, etc)
provided by brewers on the entry form will only be used for the conduct of the competition.
This information will not be released to third parties, other than the names of brewers, which
will be published in the results lists for the competition.

Not personally concerned about this comp, since it's a NSW one & you can do what you like, but would be pretty upset if other States went the same way...
Would take most of the fun out of the ANWABS comp if you couldn't compare against others - Comps are meant to be fun
cheers Ross

For my last hijack of this Winners thread let me just say that I fear that people have missed one small point.

While no one has complained here, all entrants were not asked if they would like their details published.

The quoted rule is a good one and makes it clear how the AABC (ie the National Championship) publishes names etc but this does not automatically apply to entrants at the state comps. They have their own entry forms that make no mention of how the results will be published.

The important thing is that NSW has not published names for the last four years and we have not received any complaints about that - it is just they way that we do things.