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10 Minuute IPA - Quick question.

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rosswill

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This brewing method sounds interesting and I want to give it a go. I'm thinking of a Columbus IPA with about 150g at 10 minutes, which shold give me about 60 IBU's.

The question; do I still boil for an hour, or do you boil for less? Those that do extract brews often boil less than an hour. What do those that are experienced with this technique do?

Thanks for your help.
 

Brocksmith

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If you are brewing ag you should be boiling for 60 mins to hopefully remove any precursors to off flavours in your beer eg DMS. You could probably get away with a shorter boil but the shorter it is I suppose the more you run the risk off picking up these flavors

Edit: obviously extract is a refined product which hopefully should be free from these precursors and therefore does not require 60 mins of boiling
 

rosswill

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Yeah, I'm doing AG. I intuitively thought 60 minutes, but I was telling a AG mate about the process and told him I was doing a 60 minute boil, and he asked why? I didn't have an answer.
 

stakka82

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Boil length aside, I recently did the exact same beer as you propose, turned out great!
 

Adr_0

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I think really the first 10-15min is the only really important part of the boil. The rest is up to you: how much hop utilisation you want, and your final volume/efficiency. I usually do 75min boils: 15min for hot break and then 60 stable minutes for hop utilisation and boil-down.

I can't see why you couldn't run a stiffer mash, stiffer sparges and/or more grain and shorten your boil to 20-25min if you were really keen. Somebody with a brain chime in and tell me I'm a fool...
 

Nick JD

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10 minute IPAs require rapid chilling.

150g of Columbus at 10 minutes no-chilled is 160 IBUs.
 

markxbeesley

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A question about that Nick JD,
will no chill work if you remove the hops after the boil?
I have only done two AG brews so far and use a bag to boil the hops and then no chill.
Is there any affect on flavour and aroma if you remove the hops straight away?
 

rosswill

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I use an imersion chiller. Takes about 30 minutes. Sh!t 160 IBU's. Makes my mouth pucker just thinking about it.

Mini Mash, How much Columbus did you pit in at 10 minutes?
 

Nick JD

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markxbeesley said:
A question about that Nick JD,
will no chill work if you remove the hops after the boil?
I have only done two AG brews so far and use a bag to boil the hops and then no chill.
Is there any affect on flavour and aroma if you remove the hops straight away?
This is a good question, and one I've not been able to get any definitive answers on.

I also contain my hops, but no chill. The general concensus is that the un-isomerised bittering compounds will be in the boiling wort quite quickly - but then the question needs to be asked will I get the same IBUs in these two situations:

1.) I put 20g of hops in at the start of the boil, and remove them after 10 minutes.

2.) I put 20g of hops in at the start of the boil and leave them in for 60 minutes.

Now, I'm gonna say that situation 2 will be more bitter. But that's not how no-chilling is calculated in brewing software. It assumes that the potential IBUs of the hop are all utilised no matter how long the hops are in there for.

It also depends largely on how long it takes to no-chill. For a while there I reckoned contained hops and no chilling equally uncontained hops and chilling, but now I'm not so sure ... it's easy to become acclimated to very bitter beers. It's not until you buy a 50 IBU commercial beer and think it tastes like XXXX Gold that you realise bitterness is like chilli: Indians and Thais just don't taste it anymore. Homebrewers are the curry eaters of beer.

In the end we're reduced to brewing with our tongues until someone actually measures it. Anyone know how the BrewMate "no-chill" algorithm works?
 

bradsbrew

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Nick JD said:
. Anyone know how the BrewMate "no-chill" algorithm works?
Pretty sure Randyrob explained that in one of the threads.
 

slash22000

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The "no chill" button adds +15 minutes boil worth of IBU's, which is consistent with my "hop stand" trials (the "in thing" at the moment apparently) and the trials I've seen from other brewers who claim 10% - 15% utilisation on hops added directly post-boil and left to stand. I've made two beers so far following the "hop stand" experiments from other brewers and both of them have worked out exactly as I planned (that is, assuming the hop stand will add ~15 minutes worth of IBU's).

If I was going to make a hop-burst beer without a chiller, I wouldn't add them at 10 minutes, I'd add them all at flameout and call it a 15 minute IPA.
 

manticle

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To answer some of the above - Wort boiling drives off unwanted volatiles, develops colour and various flavour compounds, allows proteinaceous material to form and precipitate as well as isomerising hops for bitterness.

100 IBUS (actual, not theoretical) is close to complete saturation of solution (which I've read as being around 120). Fermentation will see the IBU level reduce.

There are other compounds in hops that contribute to bitterness - IBU is only a measurement of isomerised alpha acid in solution.
 

lukasfab

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why not just add the all your hops in the cube

big nath has done this, not sure of his results?
 

pat_00

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I brewed an all galaxy pale ale by adding my hops just to the cube.

It worked well, but my calculations were off because I didn't adjust for the AA% of my particular batch of hops and it turned out a bit under hopped. I reckon it would work fine though. Next one I do I will add some hop tea with a french press.
 

slash22000

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If you add the wort and the hops directly to the cube off the boil, it would add 15 - 20 minutes worth of IBU's depending on how quickly the wort cools <80ºC. I'd work off 15 minutes but maybe work off 20 minutes if you're going for a very lightly hopped style, or if you're adding a shitload of hops and want to make sure you stay below a certain IBU.
 

Byran

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I have done this with a pale ale that I cubed hopped with 30 grams or so. It turned out way harsher than I calculated. But I think it was more due to the excess of hops per litre of liquid that turned it harsh as apposed to the higher IBU.
I dont think cube hopping will be very good for light styles but if you leave them to lager in the keg for a while they smooth out and turn into special brews with flavours that you cant make out of the kettle. Like a good wine.
 

pat_00

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I think if you do cube hop you might not want it sitting around for ages, might produce some weird flavours. I have only done it so far for brews that I pitch the next day.
 

mikec

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I cube hopped some Pale Ales recently, using the "deduct 15 mins" method. i.e. 15 minute boil hops in the cube instead.
I found them completely lacking in bitterness, and ended up boiling up some more hops and adding to the keg to get more bitterness. That got it just right I think.

So last week I did a 70 IBU IPA, with the 15 minute additions thrown into the boil at 2 minutes, and a bit more thrown in to the cube for aroma (should probably have dry-hopped instead). This time I think I may have over-done the bitterness, although it's still fermenting and does seem to be subsiding a bit.

So I guess the lesson here is - getting your no-chill adjustments right is probably a bit of trial and error to get it just right for your system. Different systems will cool at different rates, some people will whirlpool and leave in the kettle for longer than others, some people will transfer to the cube earlier than others, etc etc etc.
I don't think a hard and fast "deduct 20 mins" or "late boil additions should now be cube additions" type rule will be very accurate considering all the other factors in play.
Trial and error, adjust and try again.
 

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