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Traditional Bock (6C)


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#1 Chris79

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 08:40 PM

Hi,

I'm looking to do a BIAB Bock soon. A traditional Bock/Dunkles Bock 6C as per the BJCP 2015 style guides.

 

I read the thread, from about 10 years ago here - which was a good read. I found more recipes here and BYO for the other sub-category Bocks (Helles, Mai, Doppelbock) and less for this sub-style.

 

I'm going to be using second generation WLP838 yeast. I have Hallertauer Hersbrucker, Hallertauer Mittelfrueh, Cz Saaz available to use.

 

Can some people share their recipes, or favourite grain/maltsters selection that are key for the rich malt flavour/character of this beer? What are your favourite hops for this beer? Do you just do a bittering addition? Or would you do an addition at say 30 minutes for flavour?

 

I've got a recipe together, but would like to get an idea what others have done for this style. Yes, I also have a fermentation fridge to brew in.

 

Cheers

Chris



#2 Markbeer

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 07:12 PM

Hi,

I love bocks. For me the essentials are German munich malt, Melanoidin malt, good lager yeast and noble hops. Caramunich 60 is my favoured crystal malt in them.

Not traditional but I like Saaz in them.

Often I see small amounts if chocolate being used for color adjustment and flavour. I don't see the need, munich and Melanoidin malt will give you what you need.

Mark

#3 Chris79

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 07:39 PM

Thanks Mark.

 

What percentage of Melanoidin malt do you use?

 

My supplier has Weyermann Caramunich 1 - with an EBC of 90. Are we talking about the same thing?

 

Do you add wheat to your grain bill? That sounds like something tradition Bock's had.

 

Cheers

Chris



#4 labels

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 07:52 PM

Cararoma, Special B and Aromatic are good at bringing out the deep malt characters but keep them to 2 or 3% especially Special B, it's a powerful malt. Munich malts should make up most of your base grain bill with a fair percentage of Munich II. Hops play a lesser role in this very malt-forward beer but any good Noble hop will work. I certainly wouldn't  bother with a late hop addition, concentrate on the malt.

 

A long boil of 90mins min helps develop the melanoidins that is prominent in this style. Use a good lager yeast, pitch high, don't underpitch, oxygenate the wort well and allow two weeks minimum for fermentation. Store the finished beer for six months. Mine took 12 months to really develop the flavor - bottled only, I don't keg strong beers. I used too much of the specialty malts but, the ones I mentioned are used a lot in bocks. You won't need Melanoidin if you use these. These points came from a brewer I know who got second in the Nats a while back - he knows his stuff with this style. Good luck it's not easy to brew.



#5 Chris79

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 12:02 PM

Thanks Labels.

 

Appreciate your ideas on a recipe build with those malts.

 

I had thought I should do a 90 min boil. I also don't have a big volume to boil, feel confident I have enough yeast.

 

Cheers



#6 kaiserben

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 03:50 PM

Last weekend I made a bock where my aim, style-wise, was to hit right on the cusp where Traditional Bock meets Doppelbock. 

 

I did a double decoction (my first attempt at decoction) and a 2 hour boil (which was going to be 2.5 hours, but I had other plans and so decided to cut time later in the day). 



#7 Chris79

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 08:54 PM

Ok, so attached are two different Bock style recipes. Recipe 1 was a bit more like I was thinking, but with addition of Melanoidin and Caramunich as mentioned above.

 

The first, uses Munich, Munich II, Melanoidin, Caramunich I.

 

The second using Munich, Munich II, Special B, Aromatic, Caraaroma.

 

Any further changes you'd make to these recipes?

 

Also, how long would you want to leave this in primary to ferment for? (Yes, I do and will take gravity readings to know where fermentation is up to).

 

Cheers

 

 

Attached Files



#8 Markbeer

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 08:12 PM

Recipe 1 is closer to what I do. But I would cut the Melanoidin back to 400 grams.

Also I usually swap out some munich for pils to make conversion easier and the flavour lighter. You are making a traditional block not a dopplebock so heavy dark fruit flavour should be restrained.

A little wheat for a creamier head as well.

Pitch and ferment cold.

Edited by Markbeer, 16 February 2017 - 08:15 PM.


#9 Chris79

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 08:42 PM

Cheers Mark.

 

If it was more difficult for conversion, re the Munich and pils, would you have a lower OG. And because of that lower conversion would you have a lower attenuation for your yeast?

 

What percent pils and wheat do you like to add 2-3% to your Bock?

 

Yes will ferment cold. Using a Keg Master fridge, that for now I'm only using for fermenting in.

 

I got some feedback from the local brew show I use, and they also suggested lowering the Melanoidin too. I don't mind a wheat addition in some of my beers will look to add some to my recipe in Beersmith.

 

Cheers



#10 Markbeer

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 05:51 PM

Hi Chris

Yes poorer conversion leads to lower efficiency.

I add 5% wheat for head retention to every beer.

Did you already brew?

#11 labels

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 07:09 PM

Hi Chris

Yes poorer conversion leads to lower efficiency.

I add 5% wheat for head retention to every beer.

Did you already brew?

Wheat does indeed improve head formation/retention but it is not the only way. In fact if it is used with the other way (rather than use one or the other) you will have really great head retention. The other method (which I now use on every beer except wheats) is a glyco protein rest at 71C for 20 minutes. A specific enzyme that is only active between 70C and 72C will make the proteins in the wort water soluble and as we all know, it is proteins which gives beer the head.



#12 manticle

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 09:38 PM

Second the glyco.

#13 Chris79

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 08:53 PM

Hi Mark, Yes I brewed the beer on Saturday night. For anyone interested I'll attach my recipe. It smelt real nice, I think especially that Munich I and II and Caramunich malt.

 

Good one re the rest at 70-72. Didn't know that one.

 

 

Attached Files



#14 Fatgodzilla

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 08:21 PM

good info on the 71c rest. Never heard of that. Then again, my brewing technique does not allow such accurate rests. Great thing about brewing .. If you can, do it. If you can't, look at alternative procedures that can offer similar results.

I'm a wheaty like Markbrew, though I also like throwing oats into a mash too. Not just dark beers either. Look also at carapils and carafoam for similar results.

Plenty of ways to skin a rabbit.

#15 Adr_0

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 12:12 PM

I'm going to do one in the next few days. Definitely going to be resting at 71C, but probably going to do the bulk of the mash at 64, possibly with a cheeky 55/56 rest before.

I know a lot of people say to add wheat for creamy head, but other base malts are quite capable (pilsner, Vienna, munich, Maris Otter).

Edited by Adr_0, 11 March 2017 - 12:25 PM.