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Recipe Advice - Sour Beer with Wild Plums


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#1 Ferg

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 09:28 AM

I'm keen to get some advice on a sour beer recipe to make use of some wild plums I picked and froze a few weeks back.

Ideally I would like to brew something light and refreshing as opposed to dark and luxurious - I see this as being something to quench the thirst this time next year rather than a winter warmer.

I brew all grain with a knock off braumeister with good temperature control etc. although ideally I would like to be able to put this fermenter aside rather than it needing attention throughout the year. At my disposal are a couple of oak staves that have been in my home-made calvados for nearly two years - if these would add something to the beer then they could definitely be re purposed.

 

So any tips on grain bills, yeast and all the rest? I am a complete novice with regards to sour beers so no tips are too basic!

 

Cheers.



#2 barls

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 09:50 AM

id look at it like a good wheat beer. 

so pils or ale malt, wheat and a noble hop at a low rate around 15ish ibu.

mash high to create things for the bugs in the sour blend.

add the fruit to the primary ether a coupe of weeks later or rack on to it in secondary.



#3 Ferg

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 11:22 AM

Thanks for that. My first thought was something like a saison actually but a wheat beer could be pretty good too.

Any thoughts on this yeast: http://www.beerco.co...gian-gigayeast/

Not sure how it would work with the grain bill but uncanny nonetheless.



#4 barls

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 11:41 AM

have that one in the fridge but haven't used it yet.

 

 

40L batch

4.000 kg of Weyermann Dark Wheat Malt

4.000 kg of German Pilsner Malt

420 g of Weyermann CaraHell

400 g of Rice Hulls

35 g of German Perle at 60 minutes.

this is what i use for my raspberry wheat.



#5 madpierre06

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 12:39 PM

I've sent the link to someone who could really give you some fine advice, having had his Wild Plum Sour, I can vouch for it greatly.



#6 Ferg

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 01:48 PM

Cheers mate, much appreciated!



#7 AJ80

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 06:56 PM

Hello mate - for my mind I'd be doing something like this (reasonably similar to barls).

Grist:
75% Pilsner malt
15% wheat malt
10% flaked oats (porridge oats will do nicely)

Mash warm (around 68C) and do a 60 min boil with a single neutral hop addition at 60 mins to 8-10 IBUs.

Ferment with WLP655 (Belgian sour mix 1) at 20C. Rack after a few weeks into a carbouy/better bottle and leave for six months (this can be optional - you could just leave it in primary to age) to let the bugs work. Then rack onto the fruit and leave for another three months. Bottle, leave for a few more months to get fizzy and you'll be drinking it next summer. Could also be nice to bottle some before you rack onto fruit so you can do a later side by side comparison.

If you're keen on more sours, throw another batch onto the initial yeast cake - I find WLP655 gets better on the second and third use.

Hope this is useful and good luck.

#8 JB

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 07:56 PM

Bottle, leave for a few more months to get fizzy and you'll be drinking it next summer.


Dear Mr AJ80, when bottling after this amount of time do you find there is still enough sugars left in the beer for the bugs to carbonate in the bottle?

#9 AJ80

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 08:49 PM

Dear Mr AJ80, when bottling after this amount of time do you find there is still enough sugars left in the beer for the bugs to carbonate in the bottle?


Fair point good sir - I always prime my bottles with sugar and use champagne bottles for extra precaution. If anything, I've noticed sours that have been aged in a bulk vessel for a longer period of time have less residual carbonation than a fresh, clean beer holds on to (which makes sense). This has resulted in a few of my sours being less carbonated than planned, but that suits my preferences just fine :-)

I've never re-seeded with fresh yeast either. According to Tonsmire in American Sour Beers this is optional as long as the beer is less than 18 months old (it will take a while though).

#10 Ferg

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 02:50 PM

Hello mate - for my mind I'd be doing something like this (reasonably similar to barls).

Grist:
75% Pilsner malt
15% wheat malt
10% flaked oats (porridge oats will do nicely)

Mash warm (around 68C) and do a 60 min boil with a single neutral hop addition at 60 mins to 8-10 IBUs.

Ferment with WLP655 (Belgian sour mix 1) at 20C. Rack after a few weeks into a carbouy/better bottle and leave for six months (this can be optional - you could just leave it in primary to age) to let the bugs work. Then rack onto the fruit and leave for another three months. Bottle, leave for a few more months to get fizzy and you'll be drinking it next summer. Could also be nice to bottle some before you rack onto fruit so you can do a later side by side comparison.

If you're keen on more sours, throw another batch onto the initial yeast cake - I find WLP655 gets better on the second and third use.

Hope this is useful and good luck.

 

Thanks for that - much appreciated. I do love to do some side by sides and was already thinking about doing a double batch - half goes on the fruit, half by itself.

I also got thinking about the other brews I will be doing later this year. Its coming up to cider season and I always let my ciders have a wild fermentation (albeit somewhat controlled by a half dosage of camden a la Andrew Lea). Do you think I could pitch some of my fermenting cider into the wort as a starter or maybe I should just quit while I'm ahead!



#11 AJ80

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 05:25 PM

You could definitely give it a crack, but maybe only with a few litres of wort. Spontaneous fermentation comes with risks and I'd hate to see you lose a full batch due to some crazy wild bug and ruining things. If the few litres of sour beer prove tasty you'd then be able to culture it up to do a full batch quite easily. This similar to the process Tonsmire recommends for spontaneous fermentations.

I've tried making 'funky' ciders before by pitching Brett and brewers yeast into juice, but with poor results (very limited funk - verging on zero). The same yeast combo into wort however gave me funk central. Clearly the different combination of sugars between juice and malt-based wort has a massive impact on the end funk factor. I believe it's to do with the longer-chain sugars in wort that Brett can break down into funky compounds.

Just my two cents worth though...

#12 indica86

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 06:47 PM

gose