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What do you think of this SmAsH?


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#1 Andy_27

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 12:36 PM

Hi guys,

 

I'm having a crack at my first smash brew using Maris Otter and Simcoe. It's something different from what's usually done and I've come up with the following recipe:

 

5.5kg Maris Otter

(I was also tossing up adding 250g Carapils which I have lying around...)

 

15g Simcoe @ 60

15g Simcoe @ 20

28g Simcoe @ 0 (Steep for 15mins)

56g Simcoe Dry Hop 10 days

 

Mash @ 67 for 90 mins

 

Est OG: 1.051

Est FG: 1.012

IBU: 30.2

ABV: 4.73%

 

I was going loosely for a British Golden Ale style with a lot of hop aroma from the dry hop and moderate flavour from the flameout addition. I didnt want it too bitter to overpower the MO... What do you think?


Edited by Andy_27, 19 December 2016 - 12:40 PM.


#2 Coodgee

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 12:41 PM

not much point adding 15grams of simcoe @ 60 minutes in my opinion. You could get a lot more flavour for the same IBU by adding say 60grams (or whatever the calculations say) at 20 minutes. Depends how much hop flavour you want. The more the better I reckon. 


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#3 manticle

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 12:48 PM

There is a point addering bittering hops earlier on. Would have to look it up though as I've forgotten.

No to carapils - keep it SMASH.

Won't be uk but should be nice if you don't get the cat piss thing (some do from simcoe - I've used it in combo with citra and no cat piss).

#4 Andy_27

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 12:48 PM

not much point adding 15grams of simcoe @ 60 minutes in my opinion. You could get a lot more flavour for the same IBU by adding say 60grams (or whatever the calculations say) at 20 minutes. Depends how much hop flavour you want. The more the better I reckon. 

Not a bad idea. Upping the 20 min addition to 40g brings it back to 30 IBU's.



#5 pcqypcqy

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 12:58 PM

I did a similar thing a while back.  Not technically a SMASH, but close.

 

For a batch that gave me 3 gallons of finished beer I used:

  • 4.9kg Gladfield Pale
  • 200g of Gladfield Aurora (around 4%)
  • First Wort Hops: 25g Simcoe (12.7%)
  • 13 mins: 25g Simcoe
  • Dry Hop:  50g Simcoe (4 days at ambient, then left in for the cold crash)
  • Yeast:  US05

Initially it was fucking fantastic, really fresh and hoppy.  After a few weeks in the bottle though, it went quite dank.  Not totally bad, but if you're not a dank hop fan then it might not be your thing.



#6 damoninja

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 01:02 PM

not much point adding 15grams of simcoe @ 60 minutes in my opinion. You could get a lot more flavour for the same IBU by adding say 60grams (or whatever the calculations say) at 20 minutes. Depends how much hop flavour you want. The more the better I reckon. 

 

There is a point. Bittering at 60 is different than just getting IBUs from the later stages. 

 

For pales I typically aim for half to two thirds of bitterness coming from your 60 minute addition is a good mark. 

 

On the same note I do agree add more at 20 & 5. 

 

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#7 manticle

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 01:05 PM

Yeah dank, resin and even onion. For me, simcoe is like chinook in that it adds a good base to fruitier hops and anchors them.

However smash is a great way to work out what it does and how it's best used so stick to the plan.

#8 pcqypcqy

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 01:11 PM

Yeah dank, resin and even onion. For me, simcoe is like chinook in that it adds a good base to fruitier hops and anchors them.

However smash is a great way to work out what it does and how it's best used so stick to the plan.

 

Yeah, definitely.  Andy_27 - just brew it, taste it, brew it again some other time and fiddle with it.  That's what I plan to do with my smash type beers, lets you investigate what different additions at different times do to your beer.



#9 Andy_27

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 01:42 PM

That was the idea, I've never used Simcoe before so I wanted to see what it was like without going over the top. 

 

Thanks for the feedback!



#10 Coodgee

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 03:30 PM

There is a point addering bittering hops earlier on. Would have to look it up though as I've forgotten.

 

I think I read somewhere it is a good idea to have a few grams of hops at the start of the boil to act as atomisation points so you get a good rolling boil, but the memory is a bit hazy. Some people seem to think all late additions leads to a smoother bitterness. I have never really paid much attention to the surface of my bitterness to be honest. For me, if I'm brewing an IPA or APA, it's all about getting as much hop flavour in the beer as possible within in the limits of the bitterness you are aiming for (and I suppose there are other limits imposed like astringency and grassy flavours to consider too). So I hardly ever add 60 minute additions when going for a real hop bomb IPA. 



#11 Andy_27

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 04:21 PM

I think I read somewhere it is a good idea to have a few grams of hops at the start of the boil to act as atomisation points so you get a good rolling boil, but the memory is a bit hazy. Some people seem to think all late additions leads to a smoother bitterness. I have never really paid much attention to the surface of my bitterness to be honest. For me, if I'm brewing an IPA or APA, it's all about getting as much hop flavour in the beer as possible within in the limits of the bitterness you are aiming for (and I suppose there are other limits imposed like astringency and grassy flavours to consider too). So I hardly ever add 60 minute additions when going for a real hop bomb IPA. 

I think FWH gives a smoother bitterness than a 60 min addition.



#12 Stieger82

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 05:35 PM

I think your recipe looks good, Maris Otter won't give you much malt character on its own so your light hop additions should work well. Definitely mash at 67-68 and limit dry hop length to 5 days unless you are keen on grassier flavours. 



#13 Lyrebird_Cycles

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 05:55 PM

I think your recipe looks good, Maris Otter won't give you much malt character on its own

 

That's interesting, I've not used MO on its own but I thought it was similar to Golden Promise: they are often called the English and Scottish analogues of one another. I find GP has a very distinct character, an almost honeyed sweetness. Good in the right beer, completely distracting in the wrong beer.



#14 manticle

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 06:01 PM

Maris does have distinct malt character, esp if compared with other pale bases (as it should be).

Still - on its own it will allow the hop to show through with enough supporting character and is a good choice for a smash.

#15 Pratty1

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 06:20 PM

I second that and will debate it if required. MO gives plenty of malt character on its own, proof.....brewdog!

#16 Lyrebird_Cycles

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 06:22 PM

I'm not disagreeing with the choice of MO for a SMASH:  As stated above I haven't done it myself so if I were to do so it would be from a position of ignorance.

 

If it is similar to GP then go for it: I'm drinking a bottle of a GP / Challenger SMASH as I type, the GP has its own character but I can distinctly see the hop influence.

 

To me, that's what a SMASH does really well; apart from the pure hedonic pleasure they are a great learning tool. Being me, I value the second above the first.

 

 

 

Edit: this is a reply to Manticle, obviously typed too slowly (see above re drinking SMASH while typing).


Edited by Lyrebird_Cycles, 02 January 2017 - 06:32 PM.


#17 Lyrebird_Cycles

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 06:29 PM

MO gives plenty of malt character on its own, proof.....brewdog!

 

Do they use a lot of MO? They're Scots, I'd have though GP.

 

I used to work with someone who spent a year brewing there, I might ask him.

 

Funny thing, after a year with Brewdog he now hates IPAs (that's not an uncommon thing amongst pro brewers).


Edited by Lyrebird_Cycles, 02 January 2017 - 06:36 PM.


#18 LorriSanga

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 06:41 PM

Do they use a lot of MO? They're Scots, I'd have though GP.

 

I used to work with someone who spent a year brewing there, I might ask him.

 

Funny thing, after a year with Brewdog he now hates IPAs (that's not an uncommon thing amongst pro brewers).

 

Punk IPA is 100% MO I believe.



#19 Lyrebird_Cycles

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 06:48 PM

Website says "extra pale", whatever that means.



#20 manticle

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 07:28 PM

I'm not disagreeing with the choice of MO for a SMASH:  As stated above I haven't done it myself so if I were to do so it would be from a position of ignorance.
 
If it is similar to GP then go for it: I'm drinking a bottle of a GP / Challenger SMASH as I type, the GP has its own character but I can distinctly see the hop influence.
 
To me, that's what a SMASH does really well; apart from the pure hedonic pleasure they are a great learning tool. Being me, I value the second above the first.
 
 
 
Edit: this is a reply to Manticle, obviously typed too slowly (see above re drinking SMASH while typing).


My response was to Stieger although obviously pertinent to your bit in the discussion (as an extension rather than counterpoint).