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Who bothers with water chemistry?


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#101 TimT

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 02:55 PM

Ha, thanks. 

 

No for my next trick I'm going to have to really wrap my head around what salt does what and why. For that I think I'll need a book or two.... 



#102 mtb

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 03:01 PM

Table salt (NaCI) adds Sodium and a little Chloride. I only know that from dicking about with Bru'n Water so the more educated of the masses are welcome to correct me.



#103 Rocker1986

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 07:53 PM

To put it simply, in regard to flavour at least, chloride accentuates the malt flavours and sulphate accentuates the hops. So basically if your chloride is higher than your sulphate, then the beer will generally end up more malty, and vice versa. That's where certain profiles suit certain beer styles, for example water higher in sulphate than chloride is good for hoppy ales.



#104 Jaded and Bitter

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 03:01 PM

Get some calcium chloride and calcium sulphate (gypsum) and lactic acid from Grain and Grape.

 

Get some baking soda from the supermarket.

 

Read the water book.

 

Get a decent PH meter.

 

your in business.



#105 Adr_0

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 05:36 PM

Just want to point out that I made this post a few days ago, pointing out a reduction, rather than an increase in bicarbonate levels might be more appropriate.
Pointing it out because we all need a pat on the head sometimes, even if it comes from within.

Yeah I didnt see that, 130.5 bicarbonate is high.

Adro whats your Calcium and Magnesium?

And whats your Residual Alkalinity (RA)?

I agree with Jack, unless your calcium and magnesium are high (which I doubt from your sulphate and chloride numbers) you probably never need to worry about adding more bicarbonate, and actually may be in fact at too high a pH, hence the harsh flavour (from tannin extraction from the grain in the mash and sparge, and harsh bitterness from boiling hops at a high pH).

I think you may have this ass about.

Whats you calcium and magnesium and well try and start from there.

Hi gents,

In hijacking the the thread I did pose two questions, muddied into one:
-are carbonates needed to balance sulphate in pale ales, given a recent sharp beer >> no, the answer is chloride is needed, as I had a 5:1 ratio. Sweet.

-do carbonates contribute anything flavour/texture wise to dark beers >> again the answer is no, assuming that the acid in roast malt is buffered adequately to remain in the right pH.

I do not have it ass-about, and wouldn't dream of adding chalk to pale beers. I have heard of people doing this with stouts - MHB did know someone who did as well - but the real question here is what was their RA like, and what is mine like?

Given all the above, I will leave the chalk to my daughter to draw with, and bin it with respect to any brewing usage - given my water has more than enough alkalinenessism.

I'm brewing a brown Ale in the next few days and will not be adding chalk... I may add some CaCl2 to the mash and some NaCl to the boil though ;)

For reference I'm use Kai's spreadsheet... Better/worse than Bru'un water?

Edited by Adr_0, 17 December 2016 - 05:37 PM.


#106 Jaded and Bitter

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 05:53 PM

Hi gents,

In hijacking the the thread I did pose two questions, muddied into one:
-are carbonates needed to balance sulphate in pale ales, given a recent sharp beer >> no, the answer is chloride is needed, as I had a 5:1 ratio. Sweet.

-do carbonates contribute anything flavour/texture wise to dark beers >> again the answer is no, assuming that the acid in roast malt is buffered adequately to remain in the right pH.

I do not have it ass-about, and wouldn't dream of adding chalk to pale beers. I have heard of people doing this with stouts - MHB did know someone who did as well - but the real question here is what was their RA like, and what is mine like?

Given all the above, I will leave the chalk to my daughter to draw with, and bin it with respect to any brewing usage - given my water has more than enough alkalinenessism.

I'm brewing a brown Ale in the next few days and will not be adding chalk... I may add some CaCl2 to the mash and some NaCl to the boil though ;)

For reference I'm use Kai's spreadsheet... Better/worse than Bru'un water?

 

Im glad thats sorted out.



#107 manticle

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 05:54 PM

Not sure about the spreadsheet but I have a lot of respect for braukaiser and the research undertaken to provide well explained information.

#108 MHB

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 06:27 PM

The brewer I was referring to was voted best craft brewer in Australia twice! At the time he was brewing in all Ro-Mo water so was building up his water from scratch.

Although I personally cant see how Carbonate is a good thing to add to brewing water, like I said I could be wrong, especially as some of the best stout I have ever tasted has a fair amount added.

I think it is a pH dependant decision, if your pH was under 5.1-5.2 it would be worth considering, otherwise I would give it a miss.

Mark