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Belgian Dubbel partial mash


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#1 Chris79

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 09:25 PM

Hey all,

 

I posted last night to introduce myself on the welcome part of the forum. I've been enjoying brewing for the last year. By day I roast coffee, for a speciality coffee roasting company in Sydney.

 

I recently just completed my first partial mash. I have also downloaded ianh xls. Looks great, but I'm not sure what extract can I can use as to provide some base flavour for a Belgian dubbel to plug into it.

 

I have been doing some research on beersmith/byo re recipes. I have also read the pinned thread started on this topic by Bribie g. My thoughts so far are:

 

For the partial mash

 

1kg of pilsner malt (not sure from which country would be best)

special b - how much?

caramunich - how much, and how dark to go?

 

The rest of the recipe:

dark candy sugar - 500g enough?

What extract can?

Saaz hops

Danstar Abbaye dry yeast (that'll be re-hydrated)

 

If you've got some other ideas on how to make a partial mash and produce a Belgian dubbel, then let me know.

 

For now, I like the vibe of just steeping/mashing then boiling some base malts with speciality malts and using an extract can, as I don't own a wort chiller...yet.

 

Thanks!

Chris

 

 

 



#2 Beamer

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 10:26 PM

Hey Chris,

First of all welcome aboard.

And here is a extract recipe from a book of beer recipes I have.

Add 35g hallertauer hersbrucker @ 70
35g Tettnang @ 15

Hope it helps,

Beamer

#3 Beamer

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 10:28 PM

Here it is now

As for not having a chiller, I recommend looking into no chill brewing was a god send for me.

Attached Files


Edited by Beamer, 23 July 2016 - 10:30 PM.


#4 manticle

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 09:30 AM

If you can find it I recommend Dingemans pils.
Go easy o the spec b/crystal.

What I would do is add enough pils, pale extract and dark candy syrup (d1 or d2) to your spreadsheet to get the OG you want, then add spec b to get the colour you want.
I recommend adding syrup at the end of fermentation in stages, pitching cool and pitching lots, allow ferment temp to slowly rise and cold condition for 3 week minimum when done.

#5 Mardoo

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 10:12 AM

Cold condition on or off the yeast?

#6 manticle

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 10:41 AM

Generally if moving past 2 weeks, I'd transfer. Won't be the end of the world if you can't or don't want to provided yeast is initially healthy but I'd prefer off.

#7 Chris79

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 02:00 PM

Hey Beamer, thanks for the recipe tips! Yes, will look into no chill some more. Only sort of skim read on that topic.

Thanks for the recipe guidance manticle. I hadn't thought to use the spreadsheet that way you've suggested. I'll look into that tonight.

Re adding the syrup, would you do it in the first week, or second of fermentation?

Cheers

#8 manticle

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 02:44 PM

Once fg is close or has been reached. Go on gravity, not weeks.

#9 Chris79

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 08:49 PM

cheers. Thanks for that manticle.



#10 Chris79

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 09:34 PM

So, I've put the following into ianh's spreadsheet and come up with the following:

 

2.5 kg light DME

1.5kg Pilsner malt

200g Caramunich

200g Special B

500g Candy sugar (amber) just saw on craftbrewers site their dark candy has a range for ebc of 250-450. This I think is the only part, I am unsure of.

Hallertauer 30g @ 60 min

Saaz 25g @ 15min

 

The spreadsheet gave me OG= 1.059, FG=1.014, IBU's=20, EBC=35.6 (that's with the amber candy, I think the colour is the only thing I'm unsure of now). Woot to the spreadsheet!

 

So I'll steep the grains first for an hour or so. What temp should I aim for in the mash?

 

Then with adding the DME, should I just add 1kg from the start of the boil, and the last 1.5kg at the last 15min? Thought I'd seen something like that when I've read over other partial recipes. That helps preserve some gravity points, is that right?

 

Cheers!

 



#11 Topher

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 10:03 PM

Hi Chris, name is also Chris, and wierdly also work in sydney in coffee roasting. Spooky.

I never did extract or partial brews though....i just jumped head first from kit and kilo straight into all grain.

Coffee can go great in some beers too! I have also found plenty of stuff from the Roastery can be usefull in the Brewery.

#12 manticle

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 08:57 AM

So, I've put the following into ianh's spreadsheet and come up with the following:

 

2.5 kg light DME

1.5kg Pilsner malt

200g Caramunich

200g Special B

500g Candy sugar (amber) just saw on craftbrewers site their dark candy has a range for ebc of 250-450. This I think is the only part, I am unsure of.

Hallertauer 30g @ 60 min

Saaz 25g @ 15min

 

The spreadsheet gave me OG= 1.059, FG=1.014, IBU's=20, EBC=35.6 (that's with the amber candy, I think the colour is the only thing I'm unsure of now). Woot to the spreadsheet!

 

So I'll steep the grains first for an hour or so. What temp should I aim for in the mash?

 

Then with adding the DME, should I just add 1kg from the start of the boil, and the last 1.5kg at the last 15min? Thought I'd seen something like that when I've read over other partial recipes. That helps preserve some gravity points, is that right?

 

Cheers!

 

 

Hi,

 

I would roughly halve your specialty amounts. Spec B especially is powerful. I'd increase the syrup (I'd use D1) to around 800g.

 

The pilsner malt needs to be mashed - that is, it needs its starch converted to sugar. The process is essentially the same as steeping as far as your efforts go but what happens inside the grain is entirely different. Thus temperature needs to be between 60 and 70 degrees , maintained for at least 30 minutes. I'd aim to keep that at around 65 degrees for the full hour if you can, soaking in at least 3 times the same volume of water (so three litres per kilo of grain) The spec grains can go in with the same lot or you can soak them separately in hot or cold water. Temperature is less important although cool steeping may require longer to get the same colour and flavour (results may be smoother, give or take but I wouldn't worry too much here).

 

As for reserving dme for the end of the boil - that is to do with hop utilisation/IBU contribution. As gravity goes up, IBU contribution from the same amount of hops decreases although the chemistry is more complicated than a direct correlation. Thus some extract brewers aim for a gravity around 1040, get the IBU required, then add the remaining fermentabes at the end of the boil and use less hops to get the same bittering. Probably preferable to do the whole lot and just use more hops as there is more going on with hops and boiling than just bitter but it's up to you.



#13 Gigantorus

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 05:48 PM

Chris, Be real careful with the Belgium Special B malt. Too much and all you'll taste is big buttery raisins.
I love CaraMunich3 though.

#14 Chris79

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 08:35 PM

Hi manticle,

 

Thanks for the detailed comments.

 

I've redone the recipe with only 100g of Special B and 100g of Caramunich 3. Again, determining the colour of the beer, is proofing a bit tricky, as some suppliers done give a colour rating. Craftbrewer does, but their dark syrup d1 has a colour of 157 EBC, their dark rock sugar has a colour range of 250 to 450 EBC.

 

Cheers for the explanation on mashing, and a target temp. So based on what you're saying, I'll keep the DME, till the end of the boil, and just up the hops a bit.

 

Thanks gigantorus, I'll go easy on the special b!

 

Cheers



#15 manticle

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 11:19 PM

D1 syrup, 800- 1kg will probably give you what you seek. Don't freak out too much about the colour. Dark ruby when held to the light is perfect but flavour and mouthfeel are king and queen.

#16 Chris79

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 12:23 PM

ok, great manticle. Was only unsure due to being well above the colour recommendation with the xls.

 

Sounds like you're saying the syrup is superior to the dark candy rocks?

 

Thanks again  :)

 

Keen for this brew, even though I haven't even bought the ingredients!



#17 manticle

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 04:44 PM

Syrup hands down. Bugger
the expense. Belgians are special.

#18 Chris79

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 05:57 PM

Cool. Can't wait to brew this one. Good to know it's a superior option

Edited by Chris79, 26 July 2016 - 05:57 PM.


#19 Chris79

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 09:55 PM

ordered these ingredients above, with the dark candy syrup (800g).

 

Last question, manticle won't my OG "appear" as lower then 1059 with adding the syrup late in the piece of fermentation - as oppose to before fermentation starts? Do I just need to assume, my OG will be what the spreadsheet has calculated it too?

 

Cheers



#20 manticle

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 10:59 PM

Put ingredients into spreadsheet with and without and you'll have the two expected pecfigures.