Quantcast

Jump to content


Help Support AussieHomeBrewer!

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/store/

Photo
- - - - -

Sodium Percarbonate


  • Please log in to reply
28 replies to this topic

#1 Father Jack

Father Jack

    Beer God

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 399 posts
  • Joined 06-October 08
  • Location:Melbourne

Posted 01 April 2012 - 04:20 PM

I've just made up a litre of SP to clean out a lightly soiled 5 litre glass demijohn.

1. Can i bottle & store this cleaner for future uses & if so, how can I tell how long it will remain effective?
2. Are ther any issues with disposal untreated down the drain?
3. Does hot or cold water matter?

Edited by Father Jack, 01 April 2012 - 04:21 PM.


#2 hoppy2B

hoppy2B

    Beer God

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,134 posts
  • Joined 31-July 11
  • Location:Eastern Fleurieu South Australia

Posted 01 April 2012 - 04:50 PM

Sodium is just sodium and the ocean is full of it so there shouldn't be a problem as far as I'm aware and perc is that stuff they use to dye hair and bleach bread flour isn't it? :huh:
Don't quote me on that though. :lol:

#3 kelbygreen

kelbygreen

    Crazy Clown

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,794 posts
  • Joined 28-November 09
  • Location:newcastle

Posted 01 April 2012 - 04:55 PM

Well I think it should be good for a few weeks. I leave mine in the fermenter and then usually tip that fermenter into another one after about a week and it still cleans well.

I dont think there is a issue as they use it in washing mashings, If you have a septic tank or any system like that then I would ask some one if its ok to use as them systems rely on bugs to brack stuff down and if you feed them some stuff it will kill them off.

When you mix it use hot water to disolve the grains once its disolved I dont think it matters, as said I tip it into another fermenter and it still cleans, Also I only put about 1-2lts of hot water in the fermenter to disolve it then top it up with cold tap water

#4 MHB

MHB

    Truth is out there, In no-mans land being shot at by both sides

  • Retailers
  • 2,655 posts
  • Joined 01-October 05
  • Location:Newcastle

Posted 01 April 2012 - 05:08 PM

Sodium Percarbonate “disassociates” (breaks up) into Peroxide and Sodium Carbonate, the Peroxide breaks up into Water and Oxygen, the free Oxygen is the steriliser, the Sodium Carbonate (Washing Soda) is the cleaner.
You need to use very hot water to get optimum disassociation, if you store it the sterilising part (oxygen) will pretty quickly evaporate out, so it will still clean but not sterilise.
Actually it’s beneficial to the sewerage system, the Sodium Carbonate breaks up fat and oil (literally saponifies them, makes them into soap) which is a lot easier to biodegrade, it’s OK for septic tanks to.
My first choice cleaner/steriliser, effective and very environmentally friendly with the bonus that its good value for money.
Mark

#5 Father Jack

Father Jack

    Beer God

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 399 posts
  • Joined 06-October 08
  • Location:Melbourne

Posted 01 April 2012 - 05:26 PM

Sodium Percarbonate "disassociates" (breaks up) into Peroxide and Sodium Carbonate, the Peroxide breaks up into Water and Oxygen, the free Oxygen is the steriliser, the Sodium Carbonate (Washing Soda) is the cleaner.
You need to use very hot water to get optimum disassociation, if you store it the sterilising part (oxygen) will pretty quickly evaporate out, so it will still clean but not sterilise.
Actually it's beneficial to the sewerage system, the Sodium Carbonate breaks up fat and oil (literally saponifies them, makes them into soap) which is a lot easier to biodegrade, it's OK for septic tanks to.
My first choice cleaner/steriliser, effective and very environmentally friendly with the bonus that its good value for money.
Mark



Thank all, excellent responses, I normally use Defender (acid - no rise sterilant) only used this as I couldnt get the bottle brush to touch all the surfaces of the demijohn. very effective stuff, & great to hear of safe disposal. will use it on kegs if I ever can bring myself to using them (just cant think of a beer I make that doesnt benefit from bottle conditioning) I think I'm now a self confessed bottle addict.
I didnt realise it is also a sterilant, does it require a rinse with boiled water or is it good if drip dried?

#6 booargy

booargy

    Beer God

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 579 posts
  • Joined 16-June 10
  • Location:I see holes and black stuff

Posted 01 April 2012 - 05:42 PM

Sodium Percarbonate “disassociates” (breaks up) into Peroxide and Sodium Carbonate, the Peroxide breaks up into Water and Oxygen, the free Oxygen is the steriliser, the Sodium Carbonate (Washing Soda) is the cleaner.
You need to use very hot water to get optimum disassociation, if you store it the sterilising part (oxygen) will pretty quickly evaporate out, so it will still clean but not sterilise.
Actually it’s beneficial to the sewerage system, the Sodium Carbonate breaks up fat and oil (literally saponifies them, makes them into soap) which is a lot easier to biodegrade, it’s OK for septic tanks to.
My first choice cleaner/steriliser, effective and very environmentally friendly with the bonus that its good value for money.
Mark


So does the mean that when I pump boiling SP solution through my brewery it is sterilising it as well? What is ideal ratio/temp?

#7 kelbygreen

kelbygreen

    Crazy Clown

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,794 posts
  • Joined 28-November 09
  • Location:newcastle

Posted 01 April 2012 - 06:16 PM

I would not rely on it to sterilise things. I know it can but you have to rinse it really well and the cost of starsan will pay its self off in 1 lost batch and last you years.

#8 Feldon

Feldon

    Beer God

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 579 posts
  • Joined 13-January 09
  • Location:Melbourne

Posted 01 April 2012 - 06:33 PM

What are you actually using? I think you have to differentiate between pure sodium percabonate (such as that which Coopers sell as a "steriliser") and Napisan (and similar products, eg the Aldi version) which also contain fillers and other additives.

#9 MHB

MHB

    Truth is out there, In no-mans land being shot at by both sides

  • Retailers
  • 2,655 posts
  • Joined 01-October 05
  • Location:Newcastle

Posted 01 April 2012 - 06:46 PM

Yes it’s a cleaner/steriliser, there are lots of different recommended dose rates and ways to use “Perk” Palmer likes it, and there are lots of other references and everyone appears to have an opinion on the right dose, I recommend about 10g/L in hot (the hotter the better) water.
A bit in the blind filter gets all the muck out of the espresso machine; it gets used to mop the floor as well as clean the Braumeister, fermenters, bottles and kegs, I even use it in the dishwasher to clean beer glasses.
I would rinse, I am the original No-Rinse Sceptic, the only products I treat as no-rinse are the “Shield” type peroxide /silver complexes.
And by good value for money I mean, you can buy ‘Food Equipment Contact” grade 100% pure cheaper by the Kg than Woollies home brand Nappy Cleaner and that’s only 36% Sodium Percarbonate – balance filler so for a third of the price.
OK I like Perk; sorry if I’m sounding a bit evangelical but it’s the best cleaner I have ever used.
Mark

#10 SJW

SJW

    As you must brew, so you must drink

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,331 posts
  • Joined 10-March 04
  • Location:Newcastle, NSW

Posted 01 April 2012 - 06:53 PM

60 deg C is about the activation temp of Sodium Percarbonate. Try it. In water under about 50 deg C it just sits on the bottom of whatever its in . Raise the temp to 60 deg C or more and it will start to do its thing, and give of loads of o2 and gets all slimy

Edited by SJW, 01 April 2012 - 06:53 PM.


#11 humulus

humulus

    Beer God

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 604 posts
  • Joined 17-August 10
  • Location:The Shire

Posted 01 April 2012 - 07:00 PM

60 deg C is about the activation temp of Sodium Percarbonate. Try it. In water under about 50 deg C it just sits on the bottom of whatever its in . Raise the temp to 60 deg C or more and it will start to do its thing, and give of loads of o2 and gets all slimy

My braumeister and a few kegs are fizzing away with sodium perc a really good cleaner!! works out a lot cheaper to use 100% sodium perc!

#12 manticle

manticle

    Standing up for the Aussie Bottler

  • Moderators
  • 19,103 posts
  • Joined 27-September 08
  • Location:Fairfield, VIC

Posted 01 April 2012 - 07:28 PM

I use it with boiling water Geoff and the cleaning power is amazing. A scungy cube with a couple of litres boiling water, sealed and shaken vigorously comes up as good as new in minutes or less. I'm currently using the pure stuff which requires less rinsing than napisan etc (I'm guessing it's the surfactants etc that leave the slime with napisan and related products).

The bonus of the boiling water, besides activating the peroxide, is that it also has sanitising properties. I do rinse with clean water and starsan everything but the sodium percarbonate gives me extra confidence (like libra fleur for brewing) and the cleaning power is superb.

I just make it up fresh each time I need it though although I will reuse the solution for anything that I'm going to soak. My plants (veges/herbs) have been happy with multiple doses over the years (although your chilli plant didn't make it, I'm sorry to say).

Edited by manticle, 01 April 2012 - 07:29 PM.


#13 Yob

Yob

    Hop to it

  • Retailers
  • 8,801 posts
  • Joined 14-November 09
  • Location:Where Kegs Live

Posted 01 April 2012 - 08:21 PM

I use it with boiling water


with abandon :beerbang: fair blows out a concave cube too :lol:

shit rocks

#14 DU99

DU99

    Beer God

  • Pro
  • 4,934 posts
  • Joined 07-June 10
  • Location:West of Melbourne

Posted 01 April 2012 - 08:37 PM

Recommend also.. :super: best stuff i have used

#15 SJW

SJW

    As you must brew, so you must drink

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,331 posts
  • Joined 10-March 04
  • Location:Newcastle, NSW

Posted 01 April 2012 - 08:47 PM

I use it with boiling water Geoff and the cleaning power is amazing. A scungy cube with a couple of litres boiling water, sealed and shaken vigorously comes up as good as new in minutes or less. I'm currently using the pure stuff which requires less rinsing than napisan etc (I'm guessing it's the surfactants etc that leave the slime with napisan and related products).

Yep, Napi San and the like is shite, well about 88% shite anyway. With only about 12% SP the rest is just filler. Everything from soap to saw dust. Must use the 100% SP, you just need too much Napi San to get the job done a,d I would not like to rely on on it for using with a fermenter.

Steve

#16 BlackRat

BlackRat

    Partial Man

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 102 posts
  • Joined 28-February 12
  • Location:Torquay

Posted 01 April 2012 - 08:51 PM

where is the best place to buy Perk?

#17 Father Jack

Father Jack

    Beer God

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 399 posts
  • Joined 06-October 08
  • Location:Melbourne

Posted 01 April 2012 - 08:54 PM

Defender is the same type sterilant as Starsan, both acid washes

I agree I used 7g in 1 litre of boiling water, shook it around & forgot about it for a while (the dried yeast residue was not submerged) came back an hour later & shook & to my surprise all the residue was already gone, I looked pretty hard as I thought I was imagining things, well impressed with it's cleaning power.

It was a 1kg bag from Greensborough HB, (Nice bloke); the owner. said 60% SP, it didnt say what the other 40% was, looks the same as Napisan.

#18 Yob

Yob

    Hop to it

  • Retailers
  • 8,801 posts
  • Joined 14-November 09
  • Location:Where Kegs Live

Posted 01 April 2012 - 08:55 PM

you just missed a bulk buy.. they come up every so often..

keep an eye on the bulk buy section, things in there dont come up on the latest threads list so are easy to miss..

last BB was HERE

prices depend on the amount purchased but happy to provide you with contact information..

Yob

#19 Father Jack

Father Jack

    Beer God

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 399 posts
  • Joined 06-October 08
  • Location:Melbourne

Posted 01 April 2012 - 09:08 PM

My plants (veges/herbs) have been happy with multiple doses over the years (although your chilli plant didn't make it, I'm sorry to say).



How the hell did you manage to kill that thing, I've never seen such a vigorous growing plant, I harvested two full shopping bags off it in the same season before I gave it to you. It was in a box 80x50x40 & kept it pruned to 100h x80x50 (the size of the box)

if you kept any seeds, note 1st season, mild as a capsicum, second season, my neighbour & I washed down a whole load of Belg Tripel to try & numb the taste buds.




Black Rat. I'd expect most HB suppliers would have it, if you have to come to Melb for it, check Grain&Grape website, there is also a brew shop in Peel St/Victoria St, above the Vic Market, if you're looking for a place close to the train station. (ring first to check for stock)


Always a good excuse if you wanted to get to one of G&G's brew demos they do most Saturdays.

#20 manticle

manticle

    Standing up for the Aussie Bottler

  • Moderators
  • 19,103 posts
  • Joined 27-September 08
  • Location:Fairfield, VIC

Posted 01 April 2012 - 09:28 PM

I planted it in the same spot as the capsicums and the leaves look the same so it's possible it will regrow and just got stressed with the transplant. No idea what else could have happend - maybe it hates Public transport as much as I do?

I did recently eat what I thought was a green banana capsicum which had some heat in it so maybe it's ressurected itself but all other capsicums since then have been just that.

Mildly confused I am.