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AHB Articles: Fermenting Directly in the No-chill Cube


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#21 Rowy

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:03 PM

Any o2 in the headspace would be quickly purged by the co2 output from the yeast which is coming out actively during the ferment. Even just the start of a ferment will quickly produce enough co2 to purge any benefit of o2 in the headpsace.

Well, that's what I reckon anyway. /shrug


Cheers,
Shred.



So if your happy enough to clean up a bit of krausen overflow headspace doesn't matter? Not sure myself just asking the question.

#22 Ross

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:08 PM

So if your happy enough to clean up a bit of krausen overflow headspace doesn't matter? Not sure myself just asking the question.



Correct - easy to drill the cube lid & fit a 2 piece airlock, which will allow you to fit a blow off tube. preferable imo to krausen running down the sides of the cube.

cheers
Ross

#23 Yob

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:11 PM

What would be the issues with NC'ing in a 25l cube with a 20l batch, so there is 5l of headspace?


what im saying is that I fit 22.5 lt into a 23 lt cube and I have little headspace to begin with, combined with an aggressive krausen monster, is there the possibility that you 'blow off' so much yeast that it can affect the cleanup ability of whats left there?

I guess the experiment there is a side by side of the same wort, same yeast and done in the cube with blow off and an FV with headspace enough for the krausen to drop back..

....dunno was just a thought as I realise I have minimal headspace in my cube generally.

#24 donburke

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:13 PM

What would be the issues with NC'ing in a 25l cube with a 20l batch, so there is 5l of headspace?



thats 5 litres of air containing some oxygen that can spoil you wort
probaby not an issue if pitched the next day, but would certainly reduce the shelf life of the unfermented wort

#25 Yob

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:26 PM

hang on, difference being that 5lt headspace 'before' you have released the pressure it is pasturised airspace generally right? (if you have that much), afterwards you have pitched yeast and it is largely irrelevant... I have more than 5lt headspace when I ferment in an regular drum and isnt an issue.... and not my question.

er... has this headed off in a direction I didnt inend :unsure:

#26 Ross

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:32 PM

what im saying is that I fit 22.5 lt into a 23 lt cube and I have little headspace to begin with, combined with an aggressive krausen monster, is there the possibility that you 'blow off' so much yeast that it can affect the cleanup ability of whats left there?


No, it will be fine.

Cheers Ross

#27 donburke

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:37 PM

hang on, difference being that 5lt headspace 'before' you have released the pressure it is pasturised airspace generally right? (if you have that much), afterwards you have pitched yeast and it is largely irrelevant... I have more than 5lt headspace when I ferment in an regular drum and isnt an issue.... and not my question.

er... has this headed off in a direction I didnt inend :unsure:


the only issue i see is with any extended storage of the unfermented wort

not an issue with bugs, but rather oxygen in that headspace that will spoil the wort

#28 Rowy

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:41 PM

the only issue i see is with any extended storage of the unfermented wort

not an issue with bugs, but rather oxygen in that headspace that will spoil the wort



Isn't that what the squeeze is all about? Reduce the headspace as much as possible.

#29 Yob

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:42 PM

I concede that it well could have been my recipe and or methods of the date, I will have to re-run the experiment.

...though I might run it as cube V's drum and same hop blend side by side...

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#30 donburke

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:52 PM

Isn't that what the squeeze is all about? Reduce the headspace as much as possible.


yes it is, but 20 litres in a 25 litre cube involves a lot of squeezing, probably still leaves a litre or two of headspace, none of which is an issue if fermenting the next day,

in my experience, the cube pretty much held that contracted state when it had cooled, so even after releasing the pressure come ferment time, the cube still looked like it was crushed

#31 thedragon

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:59 PM

Great article, thanks Manticle.

#32 manticle

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 10:36 PM

what im saying is that I fit 22.5 lt into a 23 lt cube and I have little headspace to begin with, combined with an aggressive krausen monster, is there the possibility that you 'blow off' so much yeast that it can affect the cleanup ability of whats left there?



Read the article again, particularly where I talk about headspace.

#33 Yob

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 06:57 AM

aah, yes I see...

I think I still have my old lids fitted with the blow off tube somewhere, I may have to give this another go.

ed: having trouble with the search but turned this up My attempt only the first post is (slightly) relevant

Edited by iamozziyob, 20 February 2012 - 07:07 AM.


#34 Nick R

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 09:24 AM

I used this when brewing with weizen yeasts and when pitching strong beers on big yeast cakes.

Foam Control

It is magic. Black magic. Works a thousand times better than I imagined it would. Keeps the krausen low, but it doesn't get rid of it altogether. My latest wheatie ended up with about 2-3cm of foam on top, compared to the escaping monsters I've had in the past.

It also works in the boil (it just lowers the surface tension of the liquid/bubbles AFAIK). I don't get boilovers in the kettle, but I've used it in starters boiling on the stove in an erlenmeyer flask and it works a treat there as well.

I'm going to give fermenting in jerries a go soon, so I can ferment two batches at once and I will definitely be using it.

#35 Morebeer4me

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 09:57 AM

Thanks for taking the time to write the article.
Do you tighten the screw cap when you cold crash, I have noticed via air lock on fermenter a small Negative pressure in vessel. Would you therefore suck in air when temperature drops from say 18 to 2 degrees.
Cheers

#36 pyrosx

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 09:59 AM

FTFA:

Put the lid on tight (make sure it's tight). Shake vigorously. Pressure will build from the heat and the cube will swell.


I've done exactly this in the past, and ended up with hot liquid spurting out the side of a willow cube all over the kitchen... The pressure tore a hole in the side of the thing, in the bottom of one of the indentation lines. It wasn't even an old or mistreated cube.... so maybe be careful with how much you're adding?

#37 manticle

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:18 AM

Good to note Pyrosx. I've never had any kind of issue (although I do it outside) but worth considering. Hot liquids and pressure require caution.

More beer for me - Yes once FG is reached (definitely reached), I tighten the lid. If you tighten the lid too early, pressure will build and the cube will swell so again caution is advised.

#38 Morebeer4me

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 12:01 PM

Good to note Pyrosx. I've never had any kind of issue (although I do it outside) but worth considering. Hot liquids and pressure require caution.

More beer for me - Yes once FG is reached (definitely reached), I tighten the lid. If you tighten the lid too early, pressure will build and the cube will swell so again caution is advised.


Thanks Manticle all good

#39 jacknohe

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 12:27 PM

Yeah, good stuff. My initial reason for changing to this method, like others, was due to a lack of fridge space since migrating away from bottles to kegs. Fermenting in a cube in my bar fridge is great. I've also been able to fit three cubes in my keg fridge (when it was empty) and ferment all three at the same time as they were of similar style.

But, as you mention, an additional benefit realised in switching to fermenting in cube/jerry cans was minimising the number of vessels to sanitise and clean for fermentation. I have to say my past process of no-chill cubing, then fermenting in a barrel fermenter, then racking to secondary compared to just using one vessel (and ditching racking) was just additional effort I could do without.

I'm thinking of rigging up a blow off tube as I've had a couple of krausen spills but the clean up wasn't that bad.

Edited by jacknohe, 20 February 2012 - 12:28 PM.


#40 Yob

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 07:22 AM

Foam Control


Thanks for that, will look into it next purchase time. Could be a good solution, the thing that pissed me off last time when I drilled holes and fitted blow offs was that I essentially destroyed 2 lids <_<

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