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Back Sweetening Cider.

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10 replies to this topic

#1 Clints Gadgets

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 08:44 PM

Hi All,
I made a tiny batch of cider recently. As usual it is quite dry and finished at about 1006. I have been crash chilling it at 1 degree celcius to drop the yeast out of suspension. After this, I will be kegging it in a party keg.

I am looking for a way of sweetening that is not lactose. The mrs is vegan, so would like to avoid using it.

I'm interested mainly in what quantity of sugar you use when back sweetening your ciders. Hopefully, it is formulaic.

Cheers,

Clint

#2 stef

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 08:50 PM

I usually use lactose or stevia (spelling?). I believe stevia or whatever it is is an extract from a plant of some sort.

How much to use... don't think you'll ever get a uniform answer on that. Certainly wouldnt say its formulaic.

#3 Bumma

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 08:54 PM

G'day Clint,

I'd be inclined to use apple juice if your keeping it chilled. Put some juice in a glass and some of your cider out of the fermenter, taste it and you'll get an idea of the juice/cider ratio that works for you.

Cheers,
Justin.

#4 Muscovy

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 09:11 PM

I usually use lactose or stevia (spelling?). I believe stevia or whatever it is is an extract from a plant of some sort.

How much to use... don't think you'll ever get a uniform answer on that. Certainly wouldnt say its formulaic.



FYI, I have had quite a bit of experience working with Stevia in commercial applications. (I was working with the pure stuff in the food industry, used at ppm levels) It is a botanical extract (a bunch of different glycosides) labelled as a "natural" intense sweetener, that has many applications including sweetening, blocking bitterness and masking particular flavours, and in some applications providing mouthfeel.
The product you get in the supermarkets is diluted significantly so that it provides a relative sweetness to sugar (1:1) so you should be able to formulate it to your liking. I do know that it has a metallic and lingering sweetness, particularly if dosed oh so slightly too high. I have not had a good look at the labelling but i'd expect that they use dextrose or maltodextrin as a carrier to standardise sweetness (hence it may kick start your fermentation...I'd need to qualify that statement..)
The best stuff in my opinion is brought in from Japan which i believe is labelled as "Stevia", but their is a lot of other stevia like extracts making way into Aus under different brands from China which have differing types and levels of glycosides, hence very different outcomes to sweetening etc...
Just For your info.... if you are using Stevia. I have not given it a go in the brew...i like the sound of back sweetening with da juice!

#5 Clints Gadgets

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 09:11 PM

G'day Clint,

I'd be inclined to use apple juice if your keeping it chilled. Put some juice in a glass and some of your cider out of the fermenter, taste it and you'll get an idea of the juice/cider ratio that works for you.

Cheers,
Justin.


Hey J,

Simple yet brilliant. I love it! Will definitely give that a shot, I've got spare juice ready to go.

Cheers,

Clint

#6 Clints Gadgets

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 09:13 PM

FYI, I have had quite a bit of experience working with Stevia in commercial applications. (I was working with the pure stuff in the food industry, used at ppm levels) It is a botanical extract (a bunch of different glycosides) labelled as a "natural" intense sweetener, that has many applications including sweetening, blocking bitterness and masking particular flavours, and in some applications providing mouthfeel.
The product you get in the supermarkets is diluted significantly so that it provides a relative sweetness to sugar (1:1) so you should be able to formulate it to your liking. I do know that it has a metallic and lingering sweetness, particularly if dosed oh so slightly too high. I have not had a good look at the labelling but i'd expect that they use dextrose or maltodextrin as a carrier to standardise sweetness (hence it may kick start your fermentation...I'd need to qualify that statement..)
The best stuff in my opinion is brought in from Japan which i believe is labelled as "Stevia", but their is a lot of other stevia like extracts making way into Aus under different brands from China which have differing types and levels of glycosides, hence very different outcomes to sweetening etc...
Just For your info.... if you are using Stevia. I have not given it a go in the brew...i like the sound of back sweetening with da juice!



Thanks for the info Muscovy, I've never heard of it before. Would I find it in the cooking section of the supermarket?

Cheers,

Clint

#7 Muscovy

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 09:29 PM

Thanks for the info Muscovy, I've never heard of it before. Would I find it in the cooking section of the supermarket?

Cheers,

Clint



I think you will find it next to the sugar..not 100%. I have not used the supermarket Stevia and have not used it as an adjunct to brew. From my experience I would use it at lower levels than that of sugar. It is a different sweetness. (longer on teh palate, as with most intense sweeteners)
It is worth a go for interest though. I'd be curious to see how Stef rates it...Make sure you keep a non-adultered reference sample and take note of what it does to mouthfeel as well.

#8 Kai

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 09:43 PM

It also has a slight aniseed flavour to it in my experience. Blech.

#9 Bongchitis

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 08:49 AM

All of the Stevia extracts in Oz seem to have the strange bitter aftertaste. I got an extract from china that isolated the most sweet/least bitter component of the 4 that are said to add sweetness in stevia. I have used this extract now for cider, ginger beer, lemonade cups of tea/coffee and is the best thing by far I have tried. I got 100g of the stuff and cost $55 several years ago and still have heaps left.

If you go down the stevia route then try and standardise the extract. Do your own experiments to determine equivalent sweetness as those quoted are often way off the mark. The only issue is that sugars add body and mouthfeel where the extract does not so I have been adding small amounts of maltodextrin to compensate.

Splenda is excellent also and has the maltodextrin already added as a carrier.

I will go back and try to find the data and names of the relevent isolate etc.... or do what I did and google something like stevia with no aftertaste.

Cheers..........Bong


Edit: This thread has the info " Brewing With Stevia, Sweetening Cider, Ginger Beer and Lemonade"


....sorry tried to make it a link and failed on an epic scale, I will get there one day!

Edited by Bongchitis, 30 August 2011 - 09:01 AM.


#10 hsb

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 09:15 AM

Here you go, a link to that thread. :)

#11 Bongchitis

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 09:37 AM

Thanks mate!





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