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Wyeast 3068 - Weihenstephan, Any Good?


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49 replies to this topic

#1 SJW

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 11:02 AM

Is the the one everyone raves about being a classic for the wheat beer style?
Also how does it keep under water/wort in the fridge? Does it fire ack up ok?

Steve

#2 sinkas

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 11:23 AM

Wheat yeast are well know to be poor for storage, the beers I have made with the yeast seem to be rather bland, but the "same " strain from Whitelabs seeemd to be great...

#3 newguy

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 11:47 AM

Can't help regarding storage of this yeast, but yes, it's a classic. My wife's favourite - I honestly can't brew enough Bavarian weizens for her.

I can help regarding how to ferment this yeast. This strain will produce the famous banana if oxygenation of the wort is poor. The more you oxygenate, the more cloves you get and the less banana. If you want a nice balance between the two, don't oxygenate, don't even splash the wort. Pitch a nice sized starter (~1l or 200-300ml of yeast slurry) to compensate for the low oxygen. There's also the 30 rule: pitching temp + fermentation temp = 30C. I've heard of many people pitching at 12C and fermenting at 18C, which is pretty close to what I usually do.

#4 TidalPete

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 11:47 AM

Wheat yeast are well know to be poor for storage, the beers I have made with the yeast seem to be rather bland, but the "same " strain from Whitelabs seeemd to be great...


SJW,

I love Wyeast 3068 - Weihenstephan especially when I ferment at 20-21 deg c for all that banana.
I find that splitting the Wyeast pack into 8 test tubes (Leaving enough for a starter) works for me. No problems re storage after 14 months so far as it is the same as keeping the lot in the smack pack for a similar time.
Don't know how the 3068 would store after farming (2nd generation) as I have never done it with this yeast.

TP :beer:

#5 braufrau

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 12:11 PM

I find that splitting the Wyeast pack into 8 test tubes (Leaving enough for a starter) works for me. No problems re



So u just tip a bit in each test tube? No agar? No water?

#6 TidalPete

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 01:39 PM

So u just tip a bit in each test tube? No agar? No water?


Braufrau,

As I do not have a pressure cooker I just place the tubes in a homemade aluminium rack placed in a stock pot, fill the tubes with sterile (Boiled) water, loosen the caps a little then boil the living daylights out of them for 30 minutes or so. This method has Darren's tick of approval. :P

To extract the yeast solution from the Wyeast pack --- shake the pack, spray metho over both hands, the top of the pack & a pair of scissors to sterilise, cut the pack open then extract the liquid yeast with a sterilised syringe (Chemist shop -- approx $1) & divide evenly into the (Cooled & emptied) test tubes. Seal & put in fridge.
The smack pack of nutrients can be used in your first starter or saved for later.
To save on costs I have boiled the used sterilised syringe with the test tubes a few times now with no ill effects so far.

TP :beer:

#7 TidalPete

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 05:09 PM

Have been reflecting on things (As is my want) during my regular beach walk this arvo & tend to think that there has been a bit of confusion on the Forum lately where some brewers have mistakenly connected yeast splitting\farming, etc with yeast culturing, slants, petri dishes, & so on.

These are two different animals although the sterilising procedures are the same.
If recieving slants & wishing to make a starter a knowledge of both is required.
Just my two bob's worth. :)

TP :beer:

--- Sorry to be Posted Image again.

#8 Grantw

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 05:10 PM

3068 was my first liquid yeast and tasting my Hefeweizen yesterday I can attest to the banana, but I also have clove so I'm happy. I heard on the Brewing network that this yeast is not a good farming candidate -- they reckon that it is a really active yeast and once it ferments its pretty much had it. Second gens have bad habits and can impart odd flavours in addition.

cheers

Grant

#9 braufrau

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 05:21 PM

Have been reflecting on things (As is my want) during my regular beach walk this arvo & tend to think that there has been a bit of confusion on the Forum lately where some brewers have mistakenly connected yeast splitting\farming, etc with yeast culturing, slants, petri dishes, & so on.

These are two different animals although the sterilising procedures are the same.
If recieving slants & wishing to make a starter a knowledge of both is required.
Just my two bob's worth. :)

TP :beer:

--- Sorry to be Posted Image again.



But the end result is yeast in the fridge for 'ron. :)

I used to just stick a bit of starter in a jar before pitching the rest. That worked. Now I'm doing slants and I'm wondering why! Takes up less room, but more potheration to get it going again.

#10 TidalPete

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 05:46 PM

But the end result is yeast in the fridge for 'ron. :)

I used to just stick a bit of starter in a jar before pitching the rest. That worked. Now I'm doing slants and I'm wondering why! Takes up less room, but more potheration to get it going again.


Not wanting to be rude braufrau but what is your definition of "slants"?
To me a slant is a test tube partially filled with agar (Hence the word "slant") & with a yeast inoculated on it. NOT a test tube with just a split or a farmed yeast in it that sits upright.
I think that to avoid confusion to new brewers we need to be clear on this.
You are right in the space-saving thing. Before I used test tubes I was rapidly running out of allowable fridge storage space & the missus was getting cranky. :P

TP :beer:

#11 Tony

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 05:55 PM

Any good?.................. YES!

#12 ///

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 06:02 PM

I heard on the Brewing network ...


My fellow IBU, may I ask the logic. If the yeast is toast once it is fermented ... how has it survived these thousands of years???

Yeast live to ride ... ride to live ....

Scotty

#13 goatherder

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 07:46 PM

Maybe it's got a bad reputation as a repitcher because it benefits from underpitching to get the banana character. It's less likely to be underpitched when done from a slurry.

#14 schooey

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 08:14 PM

I've used this yeast a few times now. Firstly in a 40L batch of Weizen, I too read that underpitching it and fermenting warm can make big banana flavours. I made a 3L starter, and by the time it settled out and I drained off the wort, I probably had near 1L of slurry that I pitched. It still ended up a very bananery weizen, and it was only fermented at 18C.

Second time was in a Dunkel Weizenbock (HAG Caseswap). Pretty much the same story, pretty much the same result, but on to that yeast slurry, I put down a weizenbock and it hard some really weird medicinal flavours, big phenolics and still the banana. To be honest I haven't drank to much of it yet, waiting to see if the funk will drop out with time or whether I'll end up tipping it, but I hate tipping beer...

Lesson for me I guess is that I'd rather go 1st gen with this yeast, so next time I buy a smack pack, I'm going to make 3 slants of 1st gen yeast for future use.

#15 braufrau

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 10:47 PM

Not wanting to be rude braufrau but what is your definition of "slants"?

well I wouldn't have thought u were being rude if you hadn't said that! :)

To me a slant is a test tube partially filled with agar (Hence the word "slant") & with a yeast inoculated on it. NOT a test tube with just a split or a farmed yeast in it that sits upright.

That's right. And I guess I could just have test tubes with a bit of starter in them instead of the slants. I'm trying to figure out the point of slants. I guess one reason is that with test tubes of starter you need to make new generations of yeast, but, for its considered "gen 1" to propagate from slant to slant, I guess because the conditions are so benign.

I am reading Darwin's Ghost at the moment. I wonder what the author would think of that assertion. :)

Edited by braufrau, 16 August 2008 - 10:50 PM.


#16 hoohaaman

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 11:14 PM

I have used 3068 many times,the freshest innoculations from the smack pack always work best for me.I have never recultured this one from slants,but find any storage definenately affects subsequent brews.

I use the 30 rule and stress the yeast with temperature rather then volume.First brew from smack pack is always great.Each brew later looses more.

It is my next slant project,to test if this holds true with the first culture treated better.

#17 Les the Weizguy

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 02:35 PM

A little off-topic perhaps...
But FWIW, W3638 is a derivative of the original W3068 yeast, and it has been adapted to local conditions to become the house yeast for the Schneider brewery.

If you like this yeast, I find that it seems to breed(?) true, and produce similar flavours from successive generations.

I recently pitched a strong weizenbock (o.g. 1.089) onto the yeast cake from a Weizen (o.g. 1.048), and from there I split the yeast into 2, washed half and discarded the other half. The washed half went into another weizen (o.g. 1.056) and it fermented quite well at 13C and still produced the right flavours and left me with 1 litre of slurry.

W3068 is still a great yeast, but loses it's edge upon multiple re-pitching/ re-use, due to inadequate care, As Jamil said in the radio interview, If you want to re-use the yeast, do not leave it for more than a few days between re-use.

#18 SJW

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 10:00 AM

So, correct me if I am wrong, but I like the idea of taking a few ml's from the wyeast smack pak and sticking it in a few test tubes, but why would'nt you want to burst the nutrient pack first before taking the samples out so the yeast numbers build up? Or would that be classed as the first generation?
Also why would you put the yeast from the smack pack in a test tube with starter liquid? why would'nt you either use sterile water or just nothing at all?

Steve

#19 Fourstar

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 10:06 AM

So, correct me if I am wrong, but I like the idea of taking a few ml's from the wyeast smack pak and sticking it in a few test tubes, but why would'nt you want to burst the nutrient pack first before taking the samples out so the yeast numbers build up? Or would that be classed as the first generation?
Also why would you put the yeast from the smack pack in a test tube with starter liquid? why would'nt you either use sterile water or just nothing at all?

Steve


I Agree!

Wouldnt the simple solution be to break the nutrient pack, wait for it to swell, decant some for vials/slants and use the bulk to make a starter or just simply pitch? Aslong as everything is sterile, you should be able to store this for an extended period with no issues.
I cant wait to start my slanting collection. Help me step away from dry! I ordered by vials/testtubles and inoculating wire from proscitech lastweek. I hope they arrive soon.

#20 ///

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 10:09 AM

So, correct me if I am wrong, but I like the idea of taking a few ml's from the wyeast smack pak and sticking it in a few test tubes, but why would'nt you want to burst the nutrient pack first before taking the samples out so the yeast numbers build up? Or would that be classed as the first generation?
Also why would you put the yeast from the smack pack in a test tube with starter liquid? why would'nt you either use sterile water or just nothing at all?

Steve


The nutrient pack 'wakes' up the yeast, ie. an activator. The packs ship with sufficient yeast for activating and pithcing into 20l of wort.

As for Goatherders underpitching, standard is 1ml per liter of slurry, so to underpitch could you not just use say 0.5mm per litre?

Scotty