Jump to content



Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

AHB Wiki: Using Coopers Bottle Yeast


  • Please log in to reply
161 replies to this topic

#21 Reveler

Reveler

    Great Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 95 posts
  • Joined 11-August 06
  • Location:Perth, WA

Posted 03 November 2007 - 02:14 PM

is it possible to do this with your own home brews. I have a wheat beer that I brewed using Wyeast 3068. Instead of buying a new smack pack, could I just culture some out of my current batch?

#22 Stuster

Stuster

    Big mash up

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,267 posts
  • Joined 16-April 05
  • Location:Northmead, Sydney

Posted 03 November 2007 - 02:28 PM

is it possible to do this with your own home brews. I have a wheat beer that I brewed using Wyeast 3068. Instead of buying a new smack pack, could I just culture some out of my current batch?


It's certainly possible, but it's risky. I've cultured up a number of yeasts from Xmas swap bottles. Some have worked out fine, some have seemed fine in the starter and then developed off-flavours or contamination. After a few duds, I've basically given up on this, because I just can't justify losing a whole batch to save a few bucks. Not saying you shouldn't give it a go though, but in the case of a wheat beer, I'd be even more wary as they seem to be the yeasts that keep the worst. Sorry to sound so pessimistic. If you want to do it, I'd say to make a small starter first (200ml or so), step it up several times, and use your nose and tongue as your guide. :rolleyes:

#23 pcmfisher

pcmfisher

    Beer God

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,185 posts
  • Joined 21-November 07
  • Location:Adelaide

Posted 03 December 2007 - 03:37 PM

Hi all,
Have just started home brewing again after some years. I am interested in re-culturing some cpa yeast. I was just wondering why you use LDME? Could you get the same results with just dextrose? Maybe its a silly question
Thanks

#24 pcmfisher

pcmfisher

    Beer God

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,185 posts
  • Joined 21-November 07
  • Location:Adelaide

Posted 03 December 2007 - 03:40 PM

BTW -- Huge forum :)

#25 braufrau

braufrau

    Autumn Leaf Brewery

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,250 posts
  • Joined 09-December 06
  • Location:Adelaide

Posted 03 December 2007 - 05:22 PM

Hi all,
Have just started home brewing again after some years. I am interested in re-culturing some cpa yeast. I was just wondering why you use LDME? Could you get the same results with just dextrose? Maybe its a silly question
Thanks



snot a silly question.
According to Jamil Zainasheff in "brewing Class Styles", if you use dextrose, table sugar etc. your yeast population that you create will lack the ability
to ferment maltose, the main sugar in malt!

#26 DrSmurto

DrSmurto

    Beer God

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,043 posts
  • Joined 05-December 06

Posted 08 February 2008 - 12:23 PM

The wiki still has sterilise spelt incorrectly and also still has a photo showing a jug of malt solution cooling in the fridge, uncovered. Not ideal if this is meant to help out new brewers.

Apart from the semantics with US vs English spelling of words i think sterilise is also incorrect, particularly if you are putting unsealed containers into a fridge.

We sanitise, not sterilise.

Apart from those points its a good set of instructions.

#27 Mantis

Mantis

    Official keg inhaler

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,352 posts
  • Joined 04-March 08
  • Location:Horsham, Vic

Posted 14 April 2008 - 08:13 PM

Going to try this in a few weeks when I try a CSA kit. Thanks for the intructions.
Seems pretty easy if the sanitation is up to scratch eh.
Will definetely try the sniff and taste test before pitching tho

#28 Sammy

Sammy

    Dyslexic beer dog

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 801 posts
  • Joined 17-November 07
  • Location:Canberra

Posted 15 April 2008 - 03:58 PM

Going to try this in a few weeks when I try a CSA kit. Thanks for the intructions.


Just make sure you have the yeast starter well and truly ready to pitch before you make the wort.

Otherwise it could go the way of my CSA kit.

Sam

#29 Captain Jack Sparrow

Captain Jack Sparrow

    Amateur Brewer

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Joined 19-April 08
  • Location:Gold Coast, Queensland

Posted 20 April 2008 - 07:10 AM

Hi enerjex. Hey, I've never used this method before. I've only ever used packet yeast, so I'm a novice at this. My question is this: Coopers use a different yeast in their commercial primary fermentation which is separated off, and a different yeast is introduced during bottling for the secondary. Is the secondary yeast as good as the primary? They obviously carefully protect their primary yeast from the likes of us by doing this. Is it worth our effort only to end up with what yeast Coopers use for carbonation?

#30 braufrau

braufrau

    Autumn Leaf Brewery

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,250 posts
  • Joined 09-December 06
  • Location:Adelaide

Posted 20 April 2008 - 08:35 AM

Cap'n Jack ... that's a myth.
Its the same yeast in primary and bottle ...except for vintage.

#31 Captain Jack Sparrow

Captain Jack Sparrow

    Amateur Brewer

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Joined 19-April 08
  • Location:Gold Coast, Queensland

Posted 20 April 2008 - 09:34 AM

Cap'n Jack ... that's a myth.
Its the same yeast in primary and bottle ...except for vintage.



Hi BF. I'm not so sure. Click this: http://www.coopers.c...our/default.php and look at step 10 onward of the 'Conditioned beers' virtual tour. I reckon they are being sneaky so we can't get it the same as their product. How does it come up, anyway? Better than the supplied yeast or brew shop yeast?

#32 Adamt

Adamt

    Too busy (lazy) to brew.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,599 posts
  • Joined 20-November 05
  • Location:Adelaide, Australia

Posted 20 April 2008 - 10:06 AM

The conditioning yeast strain is the same as the primary yeast strain, they just add in fresh to ensure it goes the journey (this is great for us too trying to reculture it). THere is no dry strain on the market that is close to it in flavour profile (banana, pear, bread).

Cheers
Adam

#33 Troydo

Troydo

    Beer we come!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 675 posts
  • Joined 09-July 07
  • Location:Chapel Hill Brisbane

Posted 20 April 2008 - 10:15 AM

is it possible to do this with your own home brews. I have a wheat beer that I brewed using Wyeast 3068. Instead of buying a new smack pack, could I just culture some out of my current batch?


Hi reveler,

I went to a chat with the heads of white labs a few weeks ago, and something to bear in mind if your culturing from the bottle is your culturing the yeast that is more prone to floctate, so if your going for a hefe for instance your next brew will probably not have as much yeast that stays suspended and end up with more on the bottom of the bottle.


* edit, i just noticed the date... ohh well

Edited by Troydo, 20 April 2008 - 10:16 AM.


#34 braufrau

braufrau

    Autumn Leaf Brewery

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,250 posts
  • Joined 09-December 06
  • Location:Adelaide

Posted 20 April 2008 - 10:48 AM

Hi reveler,

I went to a chat with the heads of white labs a few weeks ago, and something to bear in mind if your culturing from the bottle is your culturing the yeast that is more prone to floctate, so if your going for a hefe for instance your next brew will probably not have as much yeast that stays suspended and end up with more on the bottom of the bottle.


* edit, i just noticed the date... ohh well


I always take 100ml off my starter before pitching, that way i figure the yeast hasn't evolved to adapt to fermenter conditions ... at least that's my guess. hopefully the stir plate is such a perfect environment it doesn't strongly select for any particular characterics.

#35 braufrau

braufrau

    Autumn Leaf Brewery

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,250 posts
  • Joined 09-December 06
  • Location:Adelaide

Posted 22 April 2008 - 06:17 PM

OK ... from the horses mouth (aka Frank at Coopers). Not sure why he's calling me Megan ... oh well! :)


G'day Megan, yes we are aware of this practice - in fact we encourage it
by providing a procedure for those wanting to culture our yeast from the
bottle. The same strain of yeast is used for seeding the bottles as for
primary fermentation. For a more detailed description of our procedures
do the virtual tour:
http://www.coopers.c...our/default.php

Cheers,

Frank Akers
Customer Service
Coopers Brewery
461 South Road
Regency Park
SA 5010

Ph: 08 8440 1800

If you like the beer, you'll love the Club!

http://www.coopers.com.au





-----Original Message-----
From: Samantha Lane [mailto:lanes@internode.on.net]
Sent: Sunday, 20 April 2008 8:09 AM
To: coopers@coopers.com.au
Subject: CSA yeast


Hi,

I'm sure you know that many homebrewers culture your yeast from CSA
and CPA bottles.
There is some debate whether the yeast in the bottles is the same as
that used for primary fermentation.
Can you tell us the truth please?

regards
Samantha

#36 AndrewQLD

AndrewQLD

    RED ON WHITE IPA

  • Pro - Data Unlimited
  • 5,171 posts
  • Joined 12-March 04
  • Location:QLD

Posted 22 April 2008 - 07:34 PM

OK ... from the horses mouth (aka Frank at Coopers). Not sure why he's calling me Megan ... oh well! :)


G'day Megan, yes we are aware of this practice - in fact we encourage it
by providing a procedure for those wanting to culture our yeast from the
bottle. The same strain of yeast is used for seeding the bottles as for
primary fermentation. For a more detailed description of our procedures
do the virtual tour:
http://www.coopers.c...our/default.php

Cheers,

Frank Akers
Customer Service
Coopers Brewery
461 South Road
Regency Park
SA 5010

Ph: 08 8440 1800

If you like the beer, you'll love the Club!

http://www.coopers.com.au





-----Original Message-----
From: Samantha Lane [mailto:lanes@internode.on.net]
Sent: Sunday, 20 April 2008 8:09 AM
To: coopers@coopers.com.au
Subject: CSA yeast


Hi,

I'm sure you know that many homebrewers culture your yeast from CSA
and CPA bottles.
There is some debate whether the yeast in the bottles is the same as
that used for primary fermentation.
Can you tell us the truth please?

regards
Samantha


Great post Braufrau, I won't call you Megan :lol: . That should definately dispel a lot of the false rumors in regards to the yeast.

Now, since you have a contact who seems to be happy to educate us how about broaching the subject of sugar in the Coopers Pale Ale. It would be good to confirm (or not) if they are still using sugar in their recipe, it's a bit of a bone of contention within the community here.

Cheers

Andrew

#37 Geoffi

Geoffi

    Beer God

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,438 posts
  • Joined 28-December 06
  • Location:Jamberoo

Posted 22 April 2008 - 07:48 PM

Great post Braufrau, I won't call you Megan :lol: . That should definately dispel a lot of the false rumors in regards to the yeast.

Now, since you have a contact who seems to be happy to educate us how about broaching the subject of sugar in the Coopers Pale Ale. It would be good to confirm (or not) if they are still using sugar in their recipe, it's a bit of a bone of contention within the community here.

Cheers

Andrew



I seriously doubt they could get the FG down as low as it goes without simple sugar, cane or otherwise.

FWIW, I've just done two CPA clones, using yeast cultured from the bottles. 18% cane sugar. Both have hit FGs of 1.005, the CPA FG.

#38 AndrewQLD

AndrewQLD

    RED ON WHITE IPA

  • Pro - Data Unlimited
  • 5,171 posts
  • Joined 12-March 04
  • Location:QLD

Posted 22 April 2008 - 08:07 PM

I seriously doubt they could get the FG down as low as it goes without simple sugar, cane or otherwise.

FWIW, I've just done two CPA clones, using yeast cultured from the bottles. 18% cane sugar. Both have hit FGs of 1.005, the CPA FG.


I agree totally Geoffi, and it's good to see your FG ended where it should too. Please post your results when you sample them.

Andrew

#39 Geoffi

Geoffi

    Beer God

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,438 posts
  • Joined 28-December 06
  • Location:Jamberoo

Posted 22 April 2008 - 08:36 PM

I agree totally Geoffi, and it's good to see your FG ended where it should too. Please post your results when you sample them.

Andrew



I'll be starting on the first keg on the weekend. The samples I've had have been pretty darned good. Cold and carbed I think this should be a cracker. It really has those Cooper's flavours going on.

When I first started homebrewing (18 years ago!!) culturing Coopers ale yeast was the first 'tricky' technique I tried. (No liquid yeast around then.) I had some pretty good results flavour-wise, but I think my starters were too small and my gravities never got down low enough. I haven't done it for quite a while but I'm very impressed with it this time around.

#40 AndrewQLD

AndrewQLD

    RED ON WHITE IPA

  • Pro - Data Unlimited
  • 5,171 posts
  • Joined 12-March 04
  • Location:QLD

Posted 22 April 2008 - 08:52 PM

I'll be starting on the first keg on the weekend. The samples I've had have been pretty darned good. Cold and carbed I think this should be a cracker. It really has those Cooper's flavours going on.

When I first started homebrewing (18 years ago!!) culturing Coopers ale yeast was the first 'tricky' technique I tried. (No liquid yeast around then.) I had some pretty good results flavour-wise, but I think my starters were too small and my gravities never got down low enough. I haven't done it for quite a while but I'm very impressed with it this time around.


Large starter and VERY aerated wort seems to work very well as far as attenuation is concerned, getting the beer down to 1.005 there abouts is one of the most important keys to reproducing this beer. I've found that if you can't get the FG to 1.005 you end up with a very unbalanced beer, slightly sweet given the low IBU's but also very bland and sickly since there is no hop to balance the sweetness. But if you get good attenuation it brings everything together.

Cheers
Andrew