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Starting Wyeast


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#21 Bigfella

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Posted 01 May 2004 - 06:54 PM

So I guess the next question is how long can you keep a Wyeast once it has puffed up. I popped it about two hours ago should I just put it back in the fridge or let the process continue

#22 sosman

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Posted 01 May 2004 - 07:34 PM

Bigfella I have some DME in the cupboard if you are desperate. IIRC you don't live far from me.

#23 Linz

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 09:58 AM

So I'm guessing that was a stupid question then.

My problem is that I wanted to do some propagating tomorrow but I forgot to get some DME.

Would it work if I got a cheap kit from the supermarket and boil up a bit of this.

I also have some Brewiser liquid sugar but I guess this is the same problem it amazing what you find from the kit days.

I need a HBS open on Sundays.

Bigfella,

NO ...Its not a stupid question!!!!.........you asked it.

it would have been stupid NOT TO.

Yeasties are creatures of habit also. They aclimatize(?) themselves to what they are eating and have a horrid time of adjusting to new food, if they do at all.
I can't see a problem using a bit of kit to propogate with either..a coopers from woolies would be cheap enough wouldn't it??


And most of all......who takes the Mad Monk seriously anyways????? ;) The advise might be good....its the delivery that sux :D

#24 GMK

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 10:24 AM

OK

Flame suit on...

i have used dextrose and a little lemon juice to provide acidity to beef up - propagate liquid yeast.

If you are stuck for yeast nutrients - use an old dry yeast sachet boiled for a couple minutes in water - this ensures the yeast are dead and provides nutrients for the new yeast.

Usually, i add an old yeast sachet in the boil for this reason.
I hate wasting things.

I agree that malt - even honey - is better than dextrose - but it all depends upon what you have a vailable at the time and the old cost/benefit analysis.

As a CISCO Acedemy Teacher - i tell my students in the first lesson that:

" The STUPIDEST question is the one that is not asked. If you know more after getting the answer then you have Learned! "

Flame suit off - here endeth the lesson.... :lol:

#25 ben_sa

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 04:15 PM

While at Goliaths on thursday night (or was i tuesday)???

He had the 1275 going, Which i took a sample (500Ml)

Ill be copying his style, Every now and then, Puncture a can Of coopers Malt extract and just pour some in, then shake shake shake, Shake your booty,

Voila :)

Ben

#26 Jethro

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 05:07 PM

Great Info Batz, Im about to try the Liquid yeast myself shortly. How long can the cultures survive in the fridge? and are there any Perth Brewers interested in a yeast culture exchange,
Jethro

#27 peter

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 06:46 PM

whats the diff between propagating wyeast as a starter then dividing them into stubbies for future brews- why not put the whole wyeast pak into your wort and then divide the yeast cake up after the brew has finished into stubbies?
same thing isn't it?

#28 Bigfella

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Posted 03 May 2004 - 10:11 AM

This is a question for Bats but I'm sure someone else will be able to help me.

At what point do you step up your yeast when it is finished fermenting or when it is near the end.

#29 Justin

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Posted 03 May 2004 - 10:30 AM

Peter, when the yeast is fresh out of the pack you can vouch for it's purity. By the time it comes out of your fermenter it can be an unknown quantity, it may have mutated somewhat due to temp extremes, will inevitably have some degree of infection however small, so you just can't be certain. By splitting early on you know your starting with the purest yeast that's feasibly possible in the homebrew environment. Plus what if you get an infected batch-bye bye new yeast strain!

Mostly though by making a starter and then spliting into stubbies/containers your minimising the number of vessels and amount of handling your doing with the yeast, which minimises the chances of picking up baddies. Also there is the issue of generations. Basically, splitting from the 1st started means your working from G1 and thus more likely to keep culturing up the original strain of yeast.

I generally culture from plates and slants (although I do some stubbies too), but then I have access to autoclaves and laminar flow cabinents, incubators, the works. If I did not have access to all these things I would definitely use the procedures outlined above regarding splitting into containers. It's easy, it works and the bonus is the time it takes to get a culture up and going is much reduced compared to working of slants and plates.

Cheers, JD

#30 Rubes

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Posted 03 May 2004 - 11:32 AM

Some extra questions:

How long do you reckon the yeast can be stored in stubbies?

Can you take a stubbie after say 6 months and redo the whole process to create a bunch of new 2nd generation stubbies?

How many times can you do this?

I have kept a bottle for 9 months and got a very slow but eventually good starter going. Wasn't keen to pitch it though as it took about a four days to really get going.

#31 Trough Lolly

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Posted 03 May 2004 - 01:03 PM

[snip]Can you take a stubbie after say 6 months and redo the whole process to create a bunch of new 2nd generation stubbies? How many times can you do this?[snip]

I make the next generation out of the last stubbie of the current batch. The yeast will easily survive a year in the fridge - as long as you had good sanitation and sterilisation practices in place...

So far, about 6 to 7 generations will work - beyond that the general consensus is that the risk of yeast mutation gets very high.

Cheers,
TL

#32 Kai

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Posted 03 May 2004 - 02:01 PM

If you are stuck for yeast nutrients - use an old dry yeast sachet boiled for a couple minutes in water - this ensures the yeast are dead and provides nutrients for the new yeast.

Usually, i add an old yeast sachet in the boil for this reason.
I hate wasting things.

I reckon that's great thinking. Nothing like feeding the living on the bones of the dead!

#33 Jase

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Posted 19 May 2004 - 02:20 PM

Hi Fellas,

I have just returned to brewing after a five year break. It feels good to be back. Have a MSB Nut Brown Ale going at the moment, and after a slow start, problem with airlock, and slow starting yeast, I got thinking that there must been a way to control the yeast side of things. Answer: liquid yeast.

I am trying to get my head around this, I seem to be ok with the fermenter part, but the recultivation part, I'm not so sure about, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

You make up your first yeast wort, and do you pour the entire contents of this wort into 6 stubbies, for further use. Then use the stubbies as required, and when you get to the last stubbies, repeat the process again, make up and pour off into 6 stubbies. Is this correct? If so, how many times can you do this?

Sorry to drag the post down. Any help would be great.

Cheers,
Jase :unsure:

#34 Hoops

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 01:08 PM

Batz

Firstly - great article on yeast starters. (You gave me the motivation to get some Whitelabs liquid yeasts.)
I recently bought some Whitelabs yeasts from ESB:
WLP001 : California Ale Yeast
WLP940 : Mexican Lager Yeast

I am in the process of making a starter (WLP001) to divide up.
My question is when do you step it up and add more malt/wort?
Do you add it at high krausen or when the fermention has slowed down? (running out of food)
Or do you just add wort once a day?

Hoops

#35 Trough Lolly

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 01:44 PM

You make up your first yeast wort, and do you pour the entire contents of this wort into 6 stubbies, for further use. Then use the stubbies as required, and when you get to the last stubbies, repeat the process again, make up and pour off into 6 stubbies. Is this correct? If so, how many times can you do this?

Welcome back to brewing Jase!
Step up to a three litre 1.040 wort using malt only (I don't bother wasting hops that may not be the right ones for the future brews) and decant the starter at high krausen into stubbies. The stubbies don't have to be chockers, but if you use 300ml stubbies you will end up with more stubby starters than if you used larger vessels to hold your yeast starters in.
Each stubbie is refrigerated for use later on - just take one out before brew day and make up a fresh starter for the brew you're about to do. You need to let the stubbie stand to get back to room temp and gently ease off the cap - decant the unhopped beer off the stubbie and swirl the slurry in the bottom of the stubbie. Pour it into a fresh starter solution and it will activate and get ready for your brew the following morning, or whenever you plan to do it. Pitching this active starter into the fresh wort means you have a running start at the fermentation process.

Once you get to the last stubbie, I use this one to make up a fresh 3L starter and repeat the whole process to make a second generation of yeast starters. About 6 to 7 generations should be possible - ie up to 80 stubbies of yeast starter out of a single XL smack pack is possible if you have good hygiene and yeast management techniques.
Cheers,
TL

#36 Batz

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 02:55 PM

That's about it as Trough Lolly said

Welcome to the wonderful world of liqiud yeasts

#37 GuestAlcoholic_Jovial_Monk_*

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 04:06 PM

Anyone noticed that the new Wyeast 125ml sachets now have 100billion cells minimum? up to the end of April the sachets only contained 40-60 billion cells.

You can now easily do without a starter: punch the sachet one day, pitch into 23L wort the next. Do this only if the yeast is fresh, then again don't buy yeast that is not fresh.

The new "Activator" sachets are easy to recognise, they have a bright blue front in place of the usual gold color

Jovial Monk

#38 Hoops

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 08:41 PM

How many cells are in a WhiteLabs vial?

#39 GuestAlcoholic_Jovial_Monk_*

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 12:50 AM

From the Whitelabs site, HB info page:

Each vial of White Labs liquid yeast is designed to be used directly in 5 gallons, or "pitchable". Each vial is equivalent in cell count to a pint starter, or 30-60 billion cells. One vial will usually start fermentation in 5 gallons in 5-15 hours at 70F. If a faster start is desired, or if initial gravity is over 1.070, we recommend a 1-2 pint starter be made.

I think we will soon see the number of cells rise though, now that WY has stepped them up

Jovial Monk

#40 Murray

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 09:27 AM

I've had no problems directly pitching WL tubes, though obviously I haven't done so with big beers. Last time I pitched the tube (WL001) into an OG 1.050 wort, then harvested the krausen to make further cultures.