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Style Of The Week 27/9/06 -oktoberfest/marzen


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#41 pmolou

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 04:29 PM

got my recipe sorted i think

Moloughneys Oktoberfest (20litre)

3kg DME
0.23kg CaraMunich
0.23 Munich II Weyerman
0.15 Melanoiden MAlt

40g Hallertau

Oktoberfest Blend 2633

Cant wait to brew it, just wish it was colder dont have a fermentation fridge :(

PS any tips loosely based of an Ayinger clone recipe

#42 A3k

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 04:37 PM

FIIK. Don't know much about this problem, and never really thought about that. Sorry. I can't imagine the balance would differ too greatly. It would be conceivable over many generations, but I'd be surprised if there was much difference just yet. Guess I'll have to brew another and find out :chug:


I'm sure it won't be ab problem. Just curious. Would be more than willing to give it a try.
i sent that PM. first try didn't work for some reason.

#43 citymorgue2

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 09:46 AM

Im using up some bits and pieces to get rid of the last of my extract gear so....

The Hunt for Brown October
oktoberfest/marzen

1kg Light Liquid Malt
1kg Morgans Caramalt.
1kg Morgans Dark Crystal Malt
0.500kg Wheat Malt
0.300kg Munich II
0.300kg Weyermann Vienna
0.100kg Melanoiden
70g Hallertau Hop Pellets.
80g Tettnanger hop Pellets
Yeast - 34/70
22L

Hallertau 50g @ 60
Tettnanger 30g @ 30.
Hallertau 20 @ 5
Tettnanger 50g @ 5


thoughts?

edit: yes its a slightly overly complex ingredients bill

Edited by citymorgue2, 02 June 2009 - 09:47 AM.


#44 marlow_coates

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 10:04 AM

Don't know much about the style and don't have too much memory of how they taste, but is 1kg of crystal going to leave it a bit sweet?

Or is this something you are aiming for?

#45 citymorgue2

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 10:18 AM

the morgan dark malt should be 60% dark crystal malt grain and 40% Vienna malt grain, so i was thinking it shouldnt be too bad. I havent plugged the figures into the rDB yet so im not sure about IBU. might need a little more hop bitterness/flavour.

Im also aiming to making a more traditional octoberfest beer not the newer fancypants pale octoberfest.


edit: after plugging it into the rDB, its 55IBU. hmmm too high me thinks. will have to cut back. its also a tad dark (50ECU) and a tad light on %alc.

edit: was going to change yeast to wyeast octoberfest but CB is out of stock.

Edited by citymorgue2, 02 June 2009 - 10:38 AM.


#46 technobabble66

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 02:41 PM

A quick BJCP 2015 update:

 

6A. Märzen

Overall Impression: An elegant, malty German amber lager with a clean, rich, toasty and bready malt flavor, restrained bitterness, and a dry finish that encourages another drink. The overall malt impression is soft, elegant, and complex, with a rich aftertaste that is never cloying or heavy.

 

Aroma: Moderate intensity aroma of German malt, typically rich, bready, somewhat toasty, with light bread crust notes. Clean lager fermentation character. No hop aroma. Caramel, dry-biscuity, or roasted malt aromas inappropriate. Very light alcohol might be detected, but should never be sharp. Clean, elegant malt richness should be the primary aroma. 

 

Appearance: Amber-orange to deep reddish-copper color; should not be golden. Bright clarity, with persistent, off-white foam stand.

 

Flavor: Initial malt flavor often suggests sweetness, but finish is moderately-dry to dry. Distinctive and complex maltiness often includes a bready, toasty aspect. Hop bitterness is moderate, and the hop flavor is low to none (German types: complex, floral, herbal, or spicy). Hops provide sufficient balance that the malty palate and finish do not seem sweet. The aftertaste is malty, with the same elegant, rich malt flavors lingering. Noticeable caramel, biscuit, or roasted flavors are inappropriate. Clean lager fermentation profile.

 

Mouthfeel: Medium body, with a smooth, creamy texture that often suggests a fuller mouthfeel. Medium carbonation. Fully attenuated, without a sweet or cloying impression. May be slightly warming, but the strength should be relatively hidden. 

 

Comments: Modern domestic German Oktoberfest versions are golden – see the Festbier style for this version. Export German versions (to the United States, at least) are typically orange-amber in color, have a distinctive toasty malt character, and are most often labeled Oktoberfest. American craft versions of Oktoberfest are generally based on this style, and most Americans will recognize this beer as Oktoberfest. Historic versions of the beer tended to be darker, towards the brown color range, but there have been many ‘shades’ of Märzen (when the name is used as a strength); this style description specifically refers to the stronger amber lager version. The modern Festbier can be thought of as a pale Märzen by these terms.

 

History: As the name suggests, brewed as a stronger “March beer” in March and lagered in cold caves over the summer. Modern versions trace back to the lager developed by Spaten in 1841, contemporaneous to the development of Vienna lager. However, the Märzen name is much older than 1841; the early ones were dark brown, and in Austria the name implied a strength band (14 °P) rather than a style. The German amber lager version (in the Viennese style of the time) was first served at Oktoberfest in 1872, a tradition that lasted until 1990 when the golden Festbier was adopted as the standard festival beer.

 

Characteristic Ingredients: Grist varies, although traditional German versions emphasized Munich malt. The notion of elegance is derived from the finest quality ingredients, particularly the base malts. A decoction mash was traditionally used to develop the rich malt profile.

 

Style Comparison: Not as strong and rich as a Dunkles Bock. More malt depth and richness than a Festbier, with a heavier body and slightly less hops. Less hoppy and equally malty as a Czech Amber Lager.

10 BJCP Beer Style Guidelines – 2015 Edition

 

Vital Statistics:

OG: 1.054 – 1.060 

FG: 1.010 – 1.014

ABV: 5.8 – 6.3%

IBUs: 18 – 24 

SRM: 8 - 17

EBC: 15.8 - 33.5

 

Commercial Examples: Buergerliches Ur-Saalfelder, Hacker-Pschorr Original Oktoberfest, Paulaner Oktoberfest, Weltenburg Kloster Anno 1050

Tags: standard-strength, amber-color, bottom-fermented, lagered, central-europe, traditional-style, amber-lager-family, malty
 

 


Edited by technobabble66, 05 May 2017 - 02:57 PM.


#47 technobabble66

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 03:38 PM

I'm looking to have a crack at a Marzen. Not really tried many, or any really, so i'm kind of flying blind.

But i'm keen to produce a (very) malty lager that's clean and moderately dry with bready/toasty elements, at ~5.5% alc. That seems to basically be a Marzen, so here we are!

 

The basic recipe is:

 

23L

OG=1.054

FG=1.012

IBU=20.6

EBC=21.3

Alc=5.8%

 

60% Viking Munich (** German (& Munich 2) would be best, but this is what i have)

30% Viking Vienna  (ditto)

5% Biscuit (Ding)

4% Melanoiden (Wey)

1% Acidulated (Glad)

 

20g Tettanger (4.8%AA) + 5g Saaz (4.6%AA) @ FWH

5g Tettanger + 20g Saaz @20mins (in cube)

 

Probably do: 55/63/68/72/78 for 5/20/50/20/2, with a salt ratio favouring CaCl2

 

Ferment with S-189 at ~16°

----------------------------------------

 

Ok.

A few questions spring to mind:

1) Lots of reading seems to indicate Vienna (with Munich) will produce the malty, bready, toasty finish i'm after, though many use pilsner as well for Marzens. Any thoughts on how the Vienna will work compared to the Pilsner?

2) How do the overall ratios of Munich to Vienna to specs look?

3) The choice of Biscuit or Aromatic, or both? I know i have a tendency to add too many malts, which is why i've left the aromatic out. However, half of me thinks biscuit will add the desired toasty element, whereas the other half is thinking the general maltiness of the aromatic will be awesome as well.

 

Thoughts would be most appreciated, especially from those who've brewed Marzens/Festbiers or Vienna lagers.



#48 technobabble66

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 09:29 PM

Sooooooo ... no-one's brewed a Marzen?  :(

 

Still debating whether to reduce the Biscuit & Melanoiden a little, whether to use any crystal, and whether to alter the Munich:Vienna ratio or swap the Vienna to pilsner.

Any ideas on what's worked for others?

Oh, and i've discovered i don't need the Acidulated, so i swapped that to Aromatic. (yes, manticle, I have a problem  :blush: )



#49 manticle

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 10:14 PM

Forgetting the tiny amount of spec, I use 50% pils, 25/25 vienna/munich for alts and it's maltier than malt dick mcmalt, the winner of last year's malty man contest.

Fuck the melanoiden - decoct or die.

#50 technobabble66

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 10:34 PM

Great. Thanks for that suggestion, mants. Appreciated!

 

Out of interest, what do you think the Vienna brings to the result, rather than simply a Pils+Munich combo?

 

Yeah, i was thinking to simplify the process by avoiding the decoction and using a bit of Melanoiden instead (Brulosophy told me i that's ok!  :huh: ). But the brew nerd in me will decoct it anyway, so it's probably not necessary .......... or if i did both, it'd be even more malty ....  :unsure: ...

 

I've been really impressed with the effect of biscuit & Aromatic recently, so i'm struggling to not use those (in everything!).



#51 manticle

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 10:41 PM

Biscuit and aromatic combo is nice but small amounts.

For me, vienna is soft but biscuity, munich is bread and bread crust. Combo works as well as biscuit and aromatic and for the same reason - similar but different.

#52 technobabble66

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 10:45 PM

Alrighty! Saves me a few brews of experimentation.

Thanks again.



#53 technobabble66

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 12:52 PM

After Manticle's comments, i think i'll now go with:

30% each of Pils, Vienna & Munich

5% Biscuit

2% each of Aromatic & Melanoiden (i have 4kg to get through! and i'll double it up with a decoction as well)

 

Everything else (hops schedule, salts, ~ targeted stats) remain the same.

 

Melanoiden might be overkill, and biscuit might be a little high. I also reduced the Munich as i started to get a little concerned with how it might affect sweetness at such a high level.

Having said that, i'd be curious to see how my original proposed recipe would've worked. But this is a starting point - i'm hoping for something a bit maltier than Malty McMaltface, with a nice biscuity edge to it. Hope to brew it over the next week.



#54 manticle

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 01:34 PM

As I said, my 50 pils, 25/25 munich/vienna is for alt, so I'd be inclined to increase the pils and lower the other bases.

Yes you want malty but not malteser.

#55 Randai

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 07:09 PM

I did a marzen/oktoberfest that was 50% pils and 50% munich 2. Very malty and rich, but honestly I think the yeast I used really made it crisp, it was the mangrove jacks bohemian lager yeast. So I think if you dry it out and you like malty you can really bump it up.